This transcript is auto-generated and may contain spelling and grammatical errors.
Tyler Jorgenson (00:00.912)
Welcome out to Biz Ninja Entrepreneur Radio. I am your host, Tyler Jorgensen, and today I have the pleasure of having Sarah Grace on because there’s two reasons why I think this is really cool. One, I’m going to check to make sure my number is right, but we have a ton of mutual friends. And whenever I get to connect with people who are connected to all of my friends, that means they’re super cool. So I’m excited for me to get to know her, but even more for all of you to get to know her.
And two, we don’t have enough female entrepreneurs on the show, even though I try. It’s hard, they don’t know why. So I’m excited. Sarah, get to represent all of our mutual friends and all women everywhere. So that’s a lot of people. Welcome out to the show.
Sarah Grace (00:46.988)
I’m so thrilled to be here, Tyler, and I don’t think that the timing could be any better. We have some pretty fantastic mutual friends, and I am for sure the weirdest of them all. So I am not the cool one. I am the weird one. I am the quirky one. And I will bring that in full force today. And I am also equally thrilled to represent women. Women are near and dear to my heart in the business world for so long. And so if I can have a sliver of representation there, I am here for it. Let’s go.
Tyler Jorgenson (01:16.826)
Well, I’ll give you two out of three of those concessions. I don’t know if I will agree that you’re the weirdest of the group and that’s okay. But I’m glad that you’re here. And my first question for you is, in your life, when was that moment where you first realized that you were an entrepreneur?
Sarah Grace (01:34.388)
my gosh, my husband made the iconic decision about 15 years ago that he wanted to be a doctor. So we went across the country, far away from family and friends to this crazy place called Arizona. And we started medical school. And I say we, it’s a partnership, you know how it goes, right? And we started medical school. And for the first five days of him pursuing medicine, I ate Cheetos and watched Netflix every night after
my firstborn would go to sleep for the night. So I have all these memories of sitting there, quite literally eating Cheetos, I’m not being dramatic, okay? Sitting there eating Cheetos and I was watching The Bachelor, like the trashiest television on earth, Sitting there watching it and five days in, I was like, I cannot do this for the next decade. We were looking at a decade of this and I just said, I cannot do this. And even deeper, I could see the writing on the wall of what
Greg and I, my husband, were going to look like in 10 years if he sat there and pursued medicine and learned all these incredible things about the human body and then he became a doctor and then he became an anesthesiologist and he was on this upward trajectory and I was eating Cheetos watching The Bachelor and I could just see that in 10 years we were going to grow so far apart just by default. And that was the moment that I said I have got to do something.
I didn’t even do it for the money, even though we were totally in poverty, right? I was like, it wasn’t even for the money. It was for the sake of my relationship that I said, I have to do something and something where I don’t have to put my kid in daycare. And I’ve got to figure something out so that I can learn and grow and be pushed just like he is going to be. And that is where my journey started.
Tyler Jorgenson (03:08.42)
Sure.
Tyler Jorgenson (03:27.46)
I look, you know, there’s a lot to unpack in that. but I think that the intentionality is the part I want to focus on because a lot of people are faced with that same decision and they may also say, I’m going to do something or something needs to change. But you not only, identified it and you started to do that. So what was your first step into entrepreneurship?
Sarah Grace (03:48.858)
my first step into entrepreneurship was teaching all of the medical wives how to take nice pictures. I was a photography teacher, right? I had kind of learned that skill very much so a side story when my first was born, I struggled with postpartum. And so my husband bought me a used Nikon and a photography class as something I could do with my new baby. And it changed the trajectory of my life because it changed my mind, right? It changed the things I was battling there as a new mom.
But fast forward, that was really kind of the only marketable skill I had with that brand new baby and being in Arizona away from family was okay, I can teach them what I have learned on how to take pretty pictures. And so I would pack anywhere between four or five to we got up to 25 to 30 women, all the women out there in my teeny 600 square foot apartment in Arizona while my baby was sleeping at night. And I taught photography classes. That was the first step.
Tyler Jorgenson (04:52.952)
Awesome, so clearly that’s not what you’re currently doing, so I’m sure you’ve gone through many life and business iterations since that time. And so we’re gonna take a big leap all the way and fast forward to today. What’s the thing that you’re working on now that you’re most excited about?
Sarah Grace (05:09.293)
The thing that I am most excited about is AI and everyone is into AI right now, but guess what? I don’t teach AI. Okay, what I do is I let everybody else teach AI and everybody else perfect that for businesses. And then I teach what I call the final 10%, which is what is the final 10 % of what you do as a business owner of what AI throws at you that takes people over the finish line and actually buy
and engage with you. That’s what I teach. And I’m obsessed with it. I feel like this is my moment, Tyler, right? This is my moment because AI is helping everyone get all the way to 90%. But what is that human touch? I call it the human algorithm in how we crack the code to get people over the finish line and engage with your business.
Tyler Jorgenson (06:00.528)
Yeah, so there’s never been a time where it’s easier to find leads or to get started in something. And so the final 10 % is your initiative to help people finish and actually get things done. Give me an example of how you’re helping people do that.
Sarah Grace (06:17.131)
Yet the one word of what I do is stories. You can sit there and have AI do all the 90 % and as a mother of four, I am like, thank you AI for doing all of the work for me. But how do we take that content specifically or that webinar or that challenge that AI has like thrown up for you? And I use that word very intentionally. And how do we actually curate it and put that 10 % of human touch on the very end of it to make
people feel a certain way when you’re teaching them and yes, when you’re pitching them, right? Because we’re all good intentioned and we’re serving people, right, everybody? Okay, and when we get to that pitch that they have felt something different that is not a pattern after AI and that is not regurgitated from a million other stories they’ve heard, but it is a very deeply connected collection of stories that brings people to say, yes, I want in on what Tyler is doing.
Tyler Jorgenson (07:24.432)
Cool. And so I think it’s so fascinating as we get to know people who are out there teaching, right? And as that we all have mentors, we all have people we’ve learned from. Who are some people that really impacted you as you went from, you know, teaching people how to shoot photography and take, take nice pictures to now teaching people that the final 10 % and how to tell stories.
Sarah Grace (07:47.928)
Hmm. Ironically, I would say I have had four pivotal mentors outside of my religious beliefs, right? I believe Jesus has been my mentor. So we won’t count him in the four because he’s assumed. But my first mentor was my mother. My mother wrote books from her study at home in Hyde Park, Utah, my whole growing up. And she had a purpose and she had a drive and she had an initiative of something that was pushing her and growing her. And even though she never
like said that to my face, I observed it growing up. And so she was very much a mentor that it was, it was good for a woman to go after something. And it was good for a woman to have an identity and be a fantastic, present, incredible, four foot 11 mom, right? I’m five one, but she was four 11, right? She just was packaged in that beautiful way. So she was my first mentor. And then fast forward, when I was about 27 years old, I met the amazing Katie Richardson,
which none of you can afford her people, you can’t, but if you can, you should hire her. And she just really swung open the door for me that I could have a real business. I could have a real business and a real life. And she mentored me in that way. Fast forward to just four or five years ago, I was introduced to the world of Russell Brunson. And even though I have not worked with him and bought like a hundred thousand dollar day with him, I have probably spent
well over that amount with him anyway. And he has changed my life. And I will never forget my introduction to him was when I was that mom sitting there teaching photography classes down in Arizona to all those women. I had a neighbor that said, you heard about this boy in Boise? And I was like, who is this boy in Boise? And she’s like, he’s making millionaires out of people. And I was like, who is this boy in Boise that is making millionaires out of people? And that was my introduction.
introduction to him and I am so grateful for the mentor he has been in my life. And it was a full circle moment just a couple of weeks ago when I got to speak from his stage and teach this concept of deep stories and it just, was like such an expression of gratitude of giving back for what that world has done for me. And so I would say, you know, my final mentor right now, her name is Mandy Keene and boy is she helping me pull out just my own individual magic.
Tyler Jorgenson (10:30.298)
Well, the only person I don’t know on your list is your mom. But other than that, it’s nice to know all those people. That’s a good list of mentors. And I really do love that you grew up being able to witness a woman who did have purpose outside of herself or for herself is maybe a better way to say that. Not everyone did, especially in our generation, right? And one or two generations back, it was even harder.
So how cool that you were able to see that that was allowed and okay. Very, very cool.
Tyler Jorgenson (11:28.208)
Very cool. Business is a rollercoaster. if anyone, anybody who has been in entrepreneurship for more than a short season has faced their fair share of challenges and setbacks, what’s one major challenge that you faced and how did you overcome it?
Sarah Grace (11:46.008)
I love that question. I love that question. I would say the biggest challenge that I faced was about a two, I to be totally honest with this.
about a two year period where the business just was not generating enough money to stay afloat. And I am sure everybody in here has had cashflow issues at some point. But I was very visible online at that time. And it was like I was everywhere and I was on stages and I was on podcasts and I was like co authoring books and there was like so much external like she’s everywhere.
She’s crushing it. And my poor VA, who I was paying a couple thousand a month, was making more than I was. And it haunted me. And it haunted me in the sense that every time I took a stage, I was like, I hope they don’t see through it. And every time I did a deal, I was like, don’t be desperate, Sarah, even though you’re desperate. It was that kind of feeling, of feeling like the success of me as a human was directly tied
what that bank account was saying for me. And that was a long haul. I’m not talking, I don’t know, I’m going to make payroll in a couple of weeks. It was two years of my VA making more than I did financially. And it was a total identity crisis, right? A total identity crisis.
Tyler Jorgenson (13:18.636)
Yeah, absolutely.
Sarah Grace (13:20.557)
Yeah, so I would say that the fix for that actually, of course, hindsight is always 20 20 has now turned into the most fulfilling season of my life. And it was when I had to buckle down and discover what is the magic within me? What am I really, really, really good at? And that was a really hard thing to determine because I just been regurgitating other
things Russell had taught me or other things Katie had taught me. was like, let me put my spin on this and just regurgitate it. And once I was able to dive into the fact that I am super, super good at helping people understand what stories they need around their business, what stories are missing in their business, where they use those stories, how they go deeper with those stories. It wasn’t until I discovered that, that we were able to take it to a million and beyond. And it came down from
Tyler Jorgenson (14:32.651)
I think there’s a lot of people, I mean, I don’t know an entrepreneur that hasn’t been around for at least a few years that hasn’t gone through a period of tight cashflow when their business has to evolve. especially in an entrepreneur led business, that means the entrepreneur has to evolve. And some of us take a little bit longer to make that shift than others. And so as you stepped into that magic, as you figured that out, what was the big domino?
that changed in your business? you change your offer? Did you change the business entirely? What happened?
Sarah Grace (15:08.189)
Mm, I have never been asked that question. I’ve done a lot of these, Tyler. I actually really love that question. I would say the biggest domino came, and this is ironic because I just posted about this today, when I had struggled for so long to answer the question of, what do you do? Have you ever struggled with that, Tyler?
Tyler Jorgenson (15:30.934)
yes.
Sarah Grace (15:33.006)
Yes. And it has become this haunting question for me of what do you actually do? Because immediately if I stutter, right, trying to say my elevator pitch, it’s like, oh, I actually don’t know what I do, or I’m unclear in what I do. And oh my gosh, I’m never going to be successful. And it just became this very like spirally kind of word. And so what I did is I flipped it and first started with the question of what am I good at?
right? What am I good at? And it came from an interview of Myron Golden, where Myron’s Myron Golden said, those of you who have money issues will continue to have money issues. If you keep trying to solve your money issues, instead of solving the problems of people with the money, right? Was that like the longest way to say what Myron Golden teaches, but it, it helped me get out of a space of desperation and just
yes, I can write a webinar for you. And yeah, I can help you with ads and yeah, can I help you build a funnel? Okay, let me just teach you what Russell’s taught me and that I’ve never proven and I just lacked belief, you know, all these things. And so it came down to what am I super, super good at and that kind of discovery and how can I plug that into solve people’s problems. And that’s when I discovered the art of storytelling and that’s what I ran with.
Tyler Jorgenson (16:59.716)
And so did you change the whole business or was it a small tweak or a major overhaul? guess is where I’m.
Sarah Grace (17:05.493)
A major overhaul, I had been building webinars, webinar funnel, webinar copy, webinar slides for years and years and years. And it was like a slow, painful death, right? To let that go because I was paid super well for it, right? 50K, 60K and above deals to get this done. And it was like, am I going to just let this die slowly or am going to cut it off? And I made a decision thanks to Mandy Keene and her genius to be able
to dive in and say no more webinar clients. This is killing me. This is killing me. And once that last webinar finished, was like free as a bird, right? Free as a bird. And I was able to go all in and completely overhaul the business to be around stories.
Tyler Jorgenson (17:52.698)
You know, it’s fascinating. think so many times one of the biggest challenges about moving forward is letting go of the past. And there’s one, I have a favorite story that has served me really well. It’s, and it, I believe is an old Buddhist saying there’s a man comes to a river and he asked to cross the river. So he builds a bamboo raft and then he crossed and he finally is able to cross the river because of this raft he’s built. And he gets the other side of the river because the raft was so, had helped him so much. He kept carrying it with him.
But as he continued on the journey, he realized the raft is now holding him back. And so he had to let go of the raft. And so I think some, so many times in business, we want to keep holding on to the raft, right? The thing that served us and helped us get where we are, but is now the thing stopping us from reaching our next level. And so I’m glad that you had a good coach and a good, and Mandy advised you there, but it probably still wasn’t super easy. So once you made that, that decision, you, and you embraced it.
what changed in you and then what changed in the business.
Sarah Grace (19:02.591)
I didn’t show up and I was like, my gosh, I have another webinar meeting. my gosh, I’m going to die or I have to follow up on this. And there had been signs near the end of that business in which I just wasn’t responding as quickly. We weren’t getting things done on time. Like poor business practice started to happen because I had lost my love for it and I had lost my energy behind it and hadn’t been able to compensate. And that’s when I was like, whoa, those signs are
or show, this is not who I want to be. I don’t want to be someone who’s slow to fulfill or who doesn’t keep her word or any of those things. And so it was facing that and saying, okay, what do I need to do to make this fun again? And went all in on my magic and showing up to the office for the years after that has been so much fun.
Tyler Jorgenson (19:54.734)
love that. Tell me about your podcast, Unreasonable Autonomy. What made you want to start that and what have you learned from interviewing all those people?
Sarah Grace (20:05.304)
my gosh, what a blast. I’m like jealous you get to do this more often than I get to do. Because I just think, I think conversations with people that are different than us change the world. I really do. The ability to sit with people that are different than you. So the premise behind unreasonable autonomy is in many ways self-explanatory. Number one, I wanted to sit with people who had gone after things that the world would say were unreasonable, unachievable, impossible in fact.
like I wanted to sit with those kinds of people because selfishly that inspires me, right? And shows me and others what is possible. And then as far as the world of autonomy, the 92nd version of why autonomy is so important to me is my own family. and I, we have witnessed what it’s like to try and live on the whims of the government, try and live on the up and down nature of the economy and just try and sort of be victims
Tyler Jorgenson (21:15.47)
You mean like emotionally, cause I’m like, how does an entrepreneur and an anesthesiologist live at the whims of the government? doesn’t, it wasn’t playing with me, but yeah, we can get caught up in just, and without it, we allow those outside influences to control our decisions instead of just making our own, right? Is that what you mean?
Sarah Grace (21:31.869)
Yes, and even in a very logical way when Greg went to medical school the government determined what type of loans they can have with the government and that interest rate was well above nine percent.
they determined you couldn’t go privately to get a medical school loan. And so there just were all of these components that the government has influenced how he is paid or when he is paid or all of those kinds of things. And we have found ways now around that. And so you’re right, emotionally, it’s kind of a wreck. I just didn’t, I didn’t want to show that to my kids. We didn’t want to build our marriage around that. And so we had to find other ways to be creative. How can we increase our ability to choose?
in life and not become victims of what’s around us. Yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson (22:17.026)
Awesome. What’s one big of one of those big choices you’ve been able to make through that increased autonomy?
Tyler Jorgenson (22:34.19)
I can’t say it’s a safe place. This goes out on ABC News radio and podcast, so you have to decide.
Sarah Grace (22:41.158)
Okay ABC, I’m like wait a minute you asked me if you could ask me anything and I said yes so I get to choose how to answer.
Tyler Jorgenson (22:47.492)
But you know, one thing we learned is one choice you make doesn’t have to be the same choice forever. So you’re able to say, no, I found a thing I don’t want to share yet, and that’s OK.
Sarah Grace (22:55.232)
Yes. good for you.
I would say that one of the big choices that we made in order to increase our autonomy was that we would be good enough at our craft that we would never have to be victims of specifically interest rates. I know that’s a very specific thing. And so anyone listening, just plug in what your bone to pick is, right? With the world around you. But we just wanted to be financially in a place that we would
Tyler Jorgenson (23:56.112)
Got it. Sufficiently vague and yet still meaningful. Well done. No, I think it’s okay. I think it’s okay to have certain things that are probably important to you and your husband, but don’t need to be shared in detail on public. That’s okay, right? No worries. I appreciated the share. You shared with me before we started recording that you spent some time in the Motor City of Detroit.
Sarah Grace (24:01.321)
Just cut it Tyler just
Tyler Jorgenson (24:25.134)
And I think that that’s such a fascinating city that’s going through a down season and hopefully revitalizing. What’s one thing that you learned from your time in Detroit that you still carry with you?
Sarah Grace (24:38.7)
I served a LDS or Mormon mission in Detroit and as a, you know, white, blonde, five foot one.
I cannot express enough gratitude for the experience that I had there and in the ways that it just humbled me and sent me on a trajectory of recognizing that life is really hard for a lot of people. It is really hard for a lot of people. And I remember sitting in a youth group, we call it Young Men and Young Women’s, and we were sitting with them and we were teaching them about where did we come from before we
came to earth, you know, what is our purpose here on earth? Where do we go when we die? And we were teaching this seemingly basic sort of part of our faith. And I asked this very simple question, how many of you have had an experience where you have lost someone that you love? And every single hand went in there, probably 12 or 15 young men, young women over the age of 12 in there. And I said, really, who have you lost? And Tyler, it just shocked me as we went down the line, all of
these beautiful young men and young women just over the age of 12 had experienced death at the hand of violent crime in their immediate family. single one, Tyler, every single one. And this is from this privileged girl in Utah that had the most fabulous parents ever. And yet, you my biggest concern was what, what kind
of car will they help me buy in high school? I mean it was jolting, just absolutely jolting for me Tyler. And so from that experience and getting to know these people, I would say I came home with two things. One is life is really really hard for the majority of people in the world. And so like stand up and help and give compassion and look them in the eye and discover their story. Like get to know them.
Tyler Jorgenson (27:39.63)
Thank you for sharing that. we get here towards the end, I wrap up the show with a consistent question because life isn’t just about business and I think you’re pretty clear on that. And so what is one item on your personal bucket list that you’re going to accomplish in the next 12 months?
Tyler Jorgenson (28:00.976)
Awesome. There it is. Thank you for getting the question. So many entrepreneurs still answer a business goal. I’m like, no, personally, what are you going to do for you? And they’re just, I’m like, it’s a fascinating indicator of who needs some balance work. But Sarah, thank you so much for coming out on the show and for sharing a little bit about you. If people want to connect with you more, where should they go?
Sarah Grace (28:24.816)
I love this. And because I operate on such a personal level and with stories, I want to get to know your people individually. So I’m going to be crazy and have Tyler put the link to my personal Facebook profile because I want to get to know these people one by one by one by one. And that’s going to be the best way for you to find me.
Tyler Jorgenson (28:45.59)
Awesome. Sarah, thank you so much. And to all my business ninjas, wherever you’re listening, watching or tuning in, it’s your turn to go out and do something.
