This transcript is auto-generated and may contain spelling and grammatical errors.
Tyler Jorgenson (00:01.469)
Welcome out to Biz Ninja Entrepreneur Radio. I am your host Tyler Jorgensen. And today I have the pleasure of introducing you to somebody that I consider a old and dear friend, old in the fact that I’ve known her a long time, not in her age, just because she had a birthday recently. But Mandy Keene is a performance coach. She has worked with people that you may have heard of like Tony Robbins or Russell Brunson. She coaches all of the Inner Circle, Russell’s private mastermind.
I met her first because a good friend of mine, Mark Banger said that she changed his life and really helped him through some hard times and I should talk to her. And so Mandy comes highly recommended with a lot of amazing experience and we’re really excited to talk with her about the challenges of performance and entrepreneurship and all things around that. So welcome out to the show, Mandy.
MANDY KEENE (00:51.512)
Thank you, Tyler. I’m so happy to be here. I love the work you’re doing.
Tyler Jorgenson (00:55.999)
Me too, most days. When I get to do the radio show, I’m really excited. So I usually start by asking people when they first realized they were an entrepreneur. And that’s an interesting one for you because do you identify as an entrepreneur?
MANDY KEENE (01:12.032)
I do, do. I loved your interview with Mike Schmidt about how it’s like there’s different types of entrepreneurs. And I don’t fit a lot of the classic, I would say type. And a lot of that is because of my personality. And something that I’ve learned in studying personalities is the
The entrepreneurs like I coach a lot of them that you’re that you know of have been like in russell like russell and tony and in russell’s inner circle they have A common thread of more of an assertive type of personality And it has worked really well in their business But there are other types of entrepreneurs with different personalities and we have We usually come with different different gifts and strengths, but we also have
a different kryptonite and weaknesses as well. And so, but I definitely consider myself an entrepreneur because I would not do well working for someone else. And I value freedom a lot like you do. So there’s that.
Tyler Jorgenson (02:10.423)
Yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson (02:18.455)
Sure, sure.
Tyler Jorgenson (02:22.977)
Yeah. And so you, you are a performance coach. help high performers really continue to thrive and perform at a high level, get out of their own way. How did you get started in that path of a career? How did you, you know, most people don’t start coming out of high school and say, you know what, I’m going to be a performance coach. Right. So how does one end up in that direction?
MANDY KEENE (02:45.678)
I know it’s really funny. I feel strange even still today saying I was a coach at 21 years old and I saw that like Instagram meme that says, I wish I had the confidence of a 25 year old life coach. And I look back, I’m grateful for my experience and I wouldn’t recommend someone starting so young in that. So it’s kind of a catch 22, but I have to blame my mom, Tyler.
Tyler Jorgenson (02:58.849)
Right.
MANDY KEENE (03:15.694)
Some people grow up in a religious home, you know, like they really instill a religion or a belief system that way. I grew up in a self-help home. My mom was huge into self-help and personal development and spirituality. And so, and when my sisters, you know, were 18 and up, I was 11, 12 when it was just my mom and I. And so,
That’s how I bonded with my mom. And then for my high school graduation, instead of buying me a car, she bought me a ticket to a Tony Robbins seminar. And I was hooked. I’m like, they’re dancing on the chairs in the afternoon. This is so cool. And it kind of ruined me for college. Because I was like, this is way more fun. I want to walk on hot coals and dance on chairs.
Tyler Jorgenson (04:08.679)
yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson (04:14.135)
Yeah. So I first started reading like, Tony Robbins stuff when I was in high school. And I remember really liking studying. is like his early work when he was talking about neuro associative conditioning, which I then learned, like he studied from neuro linguistic programming. I started studying this kind of stuff and just really being fascinated by how the mind works and how the brain works.
As a performance coach working with a lot of these top entrepreneurs, do you see common threads or common things where people are consistently putting up the same roadblocks to their own success? Are there patterns in this?
MANDY KEENE (04:52.024)
Yes, yes, I would say a common pattern that may surprise you is imposter syndrome. It doesn’t matter how much money they’ve made, how many followers they have, success, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. They still wrestle with imposter syndrome.
Tyler Jorgenson (05:18.317)
Could you define or explain, explain imposter syndrome to us?
MANDY KEENE (05:22.102)
Yeah, so imposter syndrome is really a fancy, more complicated title to really explain fear and shame. Because it’s better to say I have imposter syndrome than to say I’m scared or I don’t know who I am. right, like, I don’t know who I am. I’m ashamed. Or to say I’m ashamed of who I am. No. But to say, and we all do. I love
Tyler Jorgenson (05:46.743)
Right.
MANDY KEENE (05:52.43)
I love this saying that you know who doesn’t have imposter syndrome is usually an imposter. So it’s like we all have a certain level of that, but I would say that what’s really been fascinating is a lot of these like high octane driven entrepreneurs, they are unconsciously competent, meaning they don’t even understand why
Tyler Jorgenson (05:59.075)
Right.
MANDY KEENE (06:21.538)
things are easier for them than other people. You know, it’s kind of like when Mozart was five years old, he didn’t understand why other five-year-old little boys weren’t conducting music like he was. So they have, there’s this strange not understanding their power. And there’s very much a deep, deep loneliness because the outside world
is like, you’re so lucky. You’re so like, look at all you’ve accomplished. And they’re, you know, they’re kind of like quasi famous in their sector. And then they’re making all this money. And most people still believe in the hypnosis that money buys happiness. So, you know, they see these people and they’re like, you know, must be nice or good for you. But they don’t understand that they’re carrying this really unique
deep pain of not understanding why they’re still not happy, why they’re still not fulfilled. And they don’t know who they could talk to about it because you talk to someone who’s not at their level, they’re not going to be able to hear them or see them or understand them.
Tyler Jorgenson (07:34.401)
Yeah, I I’ve been seeing more people recently speaking against imposter syndrome saying you don’t have imposter syndrome. You just haven’t put in enough work yet. You haven’t done you haven’t done the reps. And I know sometimes people like to simplify and like be polarizing. I’m not a real polarizing person in general, more of a diplomat. But I think I actually really like identifying it more directly like, you’re you’re struggling with fear, fear of rejection, fear of.
like, or an identity, going through an identity shift, or you’re dealing with shame, like you feel guilty for making money because you were raised to like conservative or you’re supposed to be fiscally responsible or whatever it is. I like being able to go down deeper into what those things mean, but I think what a lot of the work you do now is around like personalities and that people aren’t all the same, right? Two entrepreneurs might interact with the world very, very different. And so, a lot of, and you
have a business around that called understand.me. Tell us a little bit of what that is and the work you guys are doing.
MANDY KEENE (08:38.084)
yeah, thank you. It’s been a game changer and it’s been eye opening for me because when I started with Tony, 25, 26 years ago now, I learned the disc assessment and I was singing the disc assessment song. I love the disc, everybody knows I’m a geek on the disc and the values with that.
It’s interesting, you know, when you say something, Tony would say the one with the most certainty influences. So I would say like all the time, oh, you know, I’d look at your disc and I’d say, oh, you’re an extrovert or you’re an introvert or whatnot. what, so understand.me as a software that Russell has created and he’s given me the privilege and honor to, geek out and to train people on it. It’s kind of like Facebook meets the top.
personality assessment results. And when you understand it, it’s really fascinating. So someone like you, for example, if I was just looking at your disk, you’re a high IS like myself. I call us Tyler, the golden retrievers of personalities. Like who does not love Tyler and Mandy? Like, come on, you know? And so like we’re really likable. before understand.me, I would say that you’re an Ambervert, meaning you’re like both an extrovert and introvert.
Tyler Jorgenson (09:51.775)
Hahaha
MANDY KEENE (10:02.936)
but that’s really not correct. I look at your Myers-Briggs and you’re like an extreme extrovert, right? But I’m also an IS and I’m an extreme introvert. And so it really helped me realize like, my gosh, so that’s actually been inaccurate that I’ve been saying for, I don’t know, 15 years, that you’re an introvert, you’re an extrovert. so it goes deeper into the uniqueness of each person.
Tyler Jorgenson (10:09.984)
You
MANDY KEENE (10:33.346)
Like you being an IS and then you also being an EFP, you know, a campaigner for Myers-Briggs. Like I know so much more about you. Like I know why you probably like this show. And like, like you said, I really love doing my show, but probably a lot of like the admin or the tech, like all the little details that’s going to drain Tyler, right? I know that. And you’re really about the people, like your strengths and your enneagram. Like you are
Tyler Jorgenson (10:55.981)
Yep.
MANDY KEENE (11:03.41)
so about the people. So to go back to answer your question, it’s for entrepreneurs, it’s really helped me help my clients understand more of who they are. And I always like to say, you’re not your personality. That’s not really who you are. At the same time, you are playing this avatar named Tyler. So you need to understand him. I believe that
We are these beautiful, magnificent, internal souls that we probably can’t comprehend with our mind. And so that’s who we really are, is we are these beautiful, internal souls having this human experience. But having this human experience, we need to understand the car that we’re in. We need to understand what we’re driving. And most people don’t. And when you don’t understand who you are, how in the heck are you gonna lead a team? And that’s where…
Tyler Jorgenson (11:48.195)
Mm-hmm.
Tyler Jorgenson (11:56.418)
Right.
MANDY KEENE (11:57.388)
Lots of chaos and drama and pain and stress comes is when you start including other people and other personalities.
Tyler Jorgenson (12:04.523)
Yeah. What I really like about the platform understand.me is what you were just mentioning, how it layers all of these different tests together and each one of those tests tells you something about yourself. But it’s a section, it’s one component, one thing. It’s like, okay, this is how you interact in the world in this way, or this is how you, what kind of work you enjoy or different things like that.
and so by seeing them all together, like what you were just talking about, kind of how they overlay, like you and I are very similar in one thing. And if we only took that test, people would assume we’re very similar in all things, but in other parts, we might be wildly different. And so it’s like, okay, they may work in the, in the world. They’d be great at a dinner party together, but probably shouldn’t work together or something like that. Right. And so if you’re, if you’re applying that into a team and managing a team, understand that can be like, okay, these two people would work really well on a.
MANDY KEENE (12:44.024)
Yes.
Tyler Jorgenson (13:00.223)
on this type of a project, but probably wouldn’t manage each other well or work in a different project well. And I just think being able to empower people with that level of like understanding of individuals, both first for themselves, right? If we want to truly know ourself and understand ourself, like being able to measure ourself against ourself and not how we think we’re supposed to experience or exposed to respond or supposed to see the world is really, really important.
MANDY KEENE (13:29.286)
it’s so important. And I love that you said, yeah, like our debt. But you’re so much more strategic than I am. So like there’s conversations around ideas and strategies and things that you would have for business owners that I would just be like, are we I would get like my energy would go and I would not be able to play that same mental game that you play. And and then you probably
You would enjoy a part of what I do, but like the one-on-one and the very deep emotional work I do, you could absolutely do it. But if you weren’t able to use your strategic mind, that would drain you. So something that I’ve learned when it comes to strengths is that when we play with our strengths and we use our strengths, it gives us energy. And when we’re not in our top strengths, it drains our energy.
Tyler Jorgenson (14:27.447)
You know, you said something right there that I have for me has been a big awakening recently. And you mentioned your top strengths because, I find so often the things that we are not great at, but we’re good at are our biggest opportunities for mistakes, opportunities for like misalignment, because we’re good enough at it that we can achieve and we can succeed, but it’s, takes more energy out of us. doesn’t give us the same level of fulfillment. like, so for me, like,
I’m really high woo. And I’m like, you know what? I’m just going to really lean into that. And I’m just going to stop trying to do all these other things that I know aren’t going are like, I’m okay, Adam, because I’m very adaptable, right? I’m highly adaptable. So I can do things and I can do anything for about a month. Right. I’ll do any job in any level and I’ll thrive in it because there’s there’s a part of that new that I like. I like variety more than certainty. And so that’s a big Tony Robbins thing. Right. The human needs of variety and certainty. But
and so, but I have found, man, if I just really lean into the top strengths, that’s where my greatest joy and my greatest fulfillment and my greatest alignment happens. Do you see that? Is that, is that something I’m observing that is real or is that just a Tyler experience?
MANDY KEENE (15:40.662)
No, that’s not just a Tyler experience. I love that you say that and you recognize that. Because like the first thing that jumped out at me when I looked at your profile having having woo and then you have ideation where it’s like you’re just constantly getting ideas. People who have ideation, they have like a factory of ideas. I don’t know if you have like an idea journal or if you put it on your phone, but like you’ve got your brain can’t stop.
from making ideas and then you put that with your third strength, the futuristic, I can’t imagine what it’s like having your, you’re like a visionary on crack. You you’re like, and then you love people so much. So what I interpret that is like, if you could use your mind while you’re with people like you doing this show is a really perfect example, is gonna be your greatest gift to the world. So I like to say that,
Tyler Jorgenson (16:22.004)
Ha ha.
MANDY KEENE (16:39.828)
What really shifted for me as a person and as my work in the world is instead of focusing on how can I become financially independent, which there’s nothing wrong with that, but it doesn’t open the door to creativity. It’s very small thinking and that’s where I find that a lot of people get stuck. But when I shifted to how can I best serve humanity? How can I best serve the world?
Tyler Jorgenson (17:06.883)
Hmm.
MANDY KEENE (17:09.022)
Then it was so much easier and so much more fun because then it was like, okay, well, if I look at Mandy as an asset for humanity, what’s the best use of her time, right? Like it’s not about me, I’m playing this avatar. So it’s like Tyler, what’s the best use of Tyler’s time? The best use of Tyler’s time is to be with people. I mean, you are super extroverted, you got woo. You have, in my opinion, the best combination for disc because it’s the golden retriever.
And so you have, but yet like a lot of people probably don’t realize when they first meet you, it’s like, Tyler’s such a nice guy. He’s a fun guy, but you’ve got this mind that’s like just constantly going and you can give so many great ideas. And so if you could share your ideas and being futuristic as you anticipate what might to come, that’s like, that’s your playground versus like,
in your top 10, you don’t have one executing strength. So what that tells me is like Tyler better have like an assistant, know, I know we both know and love our friend Melanie. Melanie is like almost all executing and like that’s why she’s so good at what she does is cause she’s on, she’s like, she’s constantly taking action. Like if you had a Melanie, then your life would be a hundred times easier.
Tyler Jorgenson (18:28.578)
Yeah.
MANDY KEENE (18:37.134)
Does that make sense?
Tyler Jorgenson (18:38.509)
Totally. I, so I used to see it as like, this is something I’m bad at. This is something I’m, I have to learn to get better at. but what the process of really going through, understand on me and personality tests and stuff is like, no, it’s, it’s just not my strength. I do plenty of administrative work, but I have to build systems that work for me or they won’t, or I won’t use them.
Right. And I have to like, okay, I build a lot of automations cause I can build it for the future and know that it gets handled. And, but then yes, it takes a team of admins and VAs and things to actually make sure the backend happens. I always, I often say, I’m like, I’m not a manager, but I am a leader. love leading, but I do not love managing. love coaching. Like when I coach my kids teams, I want to be the coach who is focused on helping the player, like get his mindset back after he makes a mistake. don’t need to sit there and build the whole.
you know, scorecard and, and like map out the, the, like what we’re going to practice plan. That’s not my strategy. So I was like having a team manager with me so I can be the coach. Right. And so, I’ve just really leaned in over these past few years on leaning into strengths. Cause a lot of times, you know, you worked with Russell, you work with him really closely on, if you look at us from the outside, we’re, like, I always joke that we’re like, we’re the twins from like,
the movie twins. Cause he, you know, we’re the same age. We did all the same stuff. We both were wrestlers. We both wrestled in colleges. We both like did all these things. started businesses around the same time. And a lot of people externally would think we’re very, very similar, but we’re actually wildly different. You know, if you, if you go into it, our, you know, our LinkedIn’s would have been pretty the same up in, through the years, but our, who we are and what we do and how we see the world is probably really different other than ideation. that one’s probably really similar, but
MANDY KEENE (20:29.966)
Yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson (20:30.755)
When you work with all these high performers and these are a lot of the people that especially in the inner circle are people who are in their first or second act of achievement. Like they’re really early, like at least in my experience, the people that I’ve seen there, they’re in that 30 to 40 year range of like maybe it’s their first or second big business that’s taking off. What are the common things that are holding them back? Like what are the common things they need to work on in their minds?
MANDY KEENE (20:59.95)
Usually that’s such a good question. Usually they’re good at the marketing and the sales. Like they got that down. And then the thing that they need the most help with that they don’t, it’s like talking to a kid about eating vegetables is leadership, is hiring and leading their team. And it’s like, I just want to do the marketing. I just want to do this. I just want to do this.
That is usually what is the most challenging. And what’s interesting is if you would have asked me five years ago, maybe even three years ago, I would say they just need to hire someone who’s really good at that. And they still can. But now I’m realizing that it’s actually part of their, there’s no way of avoiding looking at how you show up as a leader. Like there’s, cannot outsource that. It’s like trying to outsource parenting.
Right? You can get, let’s say, a nanny or help around that, but you’re still the parent. So what I’ve had to realize is, I can’t let them off the hook. That’s a disservice. What it is is really embracing that next comfort zone. And the reason why it’s so difficult is because it’s so vulnerable.
Tyler Jorgenson (22:00.631)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Tyler Jorgenson (22:26.995)
Mm-hmm.
MANDY KEENE (22:28.056)
But the ones that embrace it, the ones who go, okay, I’m gonna lean into this, this is scary, this is vulnerable, are the ones that you hear the stories that go from like two to 10 million, that are able to bridge that gap. And so it’s so fun to witness that now. And now that I have certainty that it’s possible and I’ve seen so many do it.
Tyler Jorgenson (22:48.077)
Yeah.
MANDY KEENE (22:52.59)
Now I use assessments as a tool. Like, hey, you can rely on this. This is something that you can count on. It’s not bulletproof, because we’re human beings, we’re unpredictable, but my gosh, it’ll decrease the amount of suffering by hiring the right person for the seat on the bus.
Tyler Jorgenson (23:11.223)
Yeah. I started this show 15 years ago, right after the recession had really obliterated my, my life and my finances and my businesses at the time. And so a lot of the theme of what I was talking about on the show was how did you overcome failure? Cause I was looking for advice, right? So I had the, created this show as a way to get really cool people to come and give me free advice, right? and like connect with these entrepreneurs that were, that were seemingly making it beyond where I had just.
failed. And it’s been wonderful. And I’ve often asked that sense and I want to rephrase it a little bit differently for you. Because I think so many times we see these and like I was saying, a lot of people in their first or second act, they maybe haven’t had one of those big failures or setbacks or obstacles yet. What’s a time that you maybe had that had an obstacle or a setback or a failure? And one, how did you overcome it?
But two, how do you approach failure differently now because of it?
MANDY KEENE (24:14.382)
Oh my gosh, yeah. I almost like don’t even like the word failure because it’s it it hypnotizes us to think bad, right? Like black and white, good and bad. You know, I got divorced in 2023 and and it’s so interesting because I look at like, you know, when someone graduates college, they get to wear a gown and they have a diploma and everybody comes and they take pictures and they dress up.
Tyler Jorgenson (24:25.207)
Right.
MANDY KEENE (24:44.59)
And I know this is like an extreme thing, but I felt like my ex-husband Curtis and I, like, we did great. We were together for 10 years. We were married eight. And I honestly look at it as a success. And I know that that’s a very different model of the world for some people, but it was like we outgrew each other and it was time to separate. And it was still hard and it was still painful, but I look at it like I don’t regret marrying him.
Tyler Jorgenson (25:13.731)
you
MANDY KEENE (25:14.402)
And it was time. It was time for us. And so when it comes to like, what helped me was support. Was having other people get that it wasn’t a bad thing, that it was actually very beautiful. And it took other people. It took support. And…
Tyler Jorgenson (25:17.451)
Mm-hmm.
Tyler Jorgenson (25:30.499)
Yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson (25:35.787)
You mean, you mean Mandy, the performance coach also needs support and coaching.
MANDY KEENE (25:40.204)
my gosh, Tyler, have an, one of my friends calls it my entourage. She’s like, that’s your entourage. Like I work with, I have three professionals that I talk to every single month for me, for me and my own mind, body and soul. And so, yeah, I would not be able to do it without my team. No way. And this.
Tyler Jorgenson (25:45.218)
Yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson (25:55.107)
Hmm?
Tyler Jorgenson (26:02.273)
Yeah, I think that that’s a misconception sometimes that people think if I’m a high achiever, that means I have to be doing it on my own. And I think that’s so wild and silly. Like I always tell my kids, I was like, we have we have coaches in sports. Why wouldn’t we have coaches for our mind or for our brain or for our for our heart? Right? Like have coaches.
MANDY KEENE (26:22.675)
Yes, yeah, there’s no, I looked at it, because it was painful, I won’t lie, it was very painful because it was a shock. I, you know, when you go through something like either a bankruptcy or closing a business or divorce, you started it out with this is going to be awesome, right? You started out with this image and this dream. And so, but I’m so grateful that I went through what I went through. And I looked at it kind of like a,
Tyler Jorgenson (26:30.904)
Mm-hmm.
Tyler Jorgenson (26:42.648)
Yeah.
MANDY KEENE (26:50.818)
like a spiritual surgery. And you know, if you’re gonna get like an intense surgery, you need more than one doctor. Look at all the nurses you gotta have, right? It’s like, and I felt that and I would not have been able to get through some of the toughest chapters of my life without support. And anybody who has been.
Tyler Jorgenson (27:08.065)
Yeah. And I like, I like that analogy because there is a time for triage and then there’s a time for like care. And then there’s a time for, you know, restoration and heat long-term healing. And there’s diff, you know, when you’re going through hard times, there’s different needs during that process. so as we, as we kind of come to the end of the show here, to me, business life, understanding all these things, it for me and for you, cause you said you value freedom as well. It’s about.
These things are all about creating the lifestyle and living the life that we really believe we can live. What is one item on your personal bucket list that you’re going to accomplish in the next 12 months?
MANDY KEENE (27:47.95)
Ooh, personal bucket list.
MANDY KEENE (27:55.66)
You know, the first thing that comes to mind is like, I have not gone to Switzerland and it’s, I have a beautiful friend slash client, name’s Fiona and she lives there and she’s invited me. And I just think Switzerland’s like one of the most beautiful places and they have one of those like trams where you get to like ride in it. And yeah, I would love to, that’s something that is important. And thank you for asking that question. That’s just what came to my heart. So yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson (28:22.667)
Yeah. All right, let’s make so the clock starts now. 12 months from now, Mandy’s been to Switzerland. Yeah, I love it. Mandy, thank you so much for coming out onto the show and for sharing your insights, sharing your experiences. People I know they can go to understand.me. That’s that’s one website. Where else should people go to learn more about you?
MANDY KEENE (28:28.494)
Done. Woohoo, thank you for that.
MANDY KEENE (28:43.414)
Yeah, I would highly recommend understand.me where you could get a free disc and free values, set up your profile, geek out on it. And then they could all always go to mandykeene.com as well.
Tyler Jorgenson (28:56.521)
Awesome. Thank you so much. And to all my business ninjas, wherever you’re listening, watching or tuning in, it’s your turn to go out and do something.
Awesome.
