Tyler Jorgenson 0:00
Welcome out to biz ninja entrepreneur radio. I am your host, Tyler Jorgensen. And today, you get to hear me share a little bit of what I love about e commerce. Joshua korbel is a good friend of mine who I met two years ago, about in, in Barcelona, Spain, we met through a friend on one of my 48 hour power, john say, a journey that I do as frequently as I can, where I go and experience and explore a new city anywhere in the world for two days. It is an amazing thing, and I absolutely love doing it. If you want to see more info on that go to biz ninja.com slash 48. But Josh interviewed me for his fire builders live. And it’s a really cool live show that he does, where he talks about just building momentum in your business and what’s working what’s going on. So without further ado, I’m going to share my interview with on his show with you because I think that it will be a good show here for business entrepreneur radio, it’s your turn to go out and do something. You’re listening to biz ninja entrepreneur radio. This show was created for entrepreneurs, business owners, marketers and dreamers who want to learn from the experts today and drastically shortcut their own success to build a business that supports their dream lifestyle. Since 2011, Tyler Jorgensen has been interviewing business thought leaders from around the world a serial entrepreneur himself, Tyler also shares his personal insights into what’s working in business today. Welcome to biz Ninja, entrepreneur radio.
Unknown Speaker 1:40
All right, everybody. Welcome to another episode of fire builders live. My name is Josh corpo. Like always, I’m streaming live from Key West Florida, a cold Key West Florida. Normally I don’t have the jacket on Jesus, what is happening here in the world. I have a very special guest. Tyler Jorgensen on the line. Tyler, welcome to the show, man.
Tyler Jorgenson 2:01
I’m super excited to be here, Josh. Thanks for having me.
Unknown Speaker 2:03
Thank you for taking the time, dude. He and I have been friends now for a while we first met in Barcelona on a 14 hour power john, which we’ll get into in a second. But let me tell you a little bit about what Tyler has done. CEO, professional speaker, he’s the host of the radio talk show. biz Ninja, right. He’s a contributor to places like entrepreneur, and MSN and ABC News. The guy knows just about everything there is to know about e commerce, you are pulling off superhuman feats, like building and launching 176. Shopify stores and brands, not just the tech part, but the actual brand in nine months, guys, if you do the math, that is one, one new store every one and a half days, for nine months. And if the work teaches you the work, I tell you that Tyler is becoming truly a master at this craft. But what we’re also going to be talking about, it’s not always just about the money. It’s about consciously creating a life that you love for Tyler spending time with his family. Right? It hasn’t always been easy. The man has been, you know, at the foot of despair with negative $17,000 in his bank account, fourth child on the way he had to pull it all together and make things happen. Ecommerce was the way that he was able to do it. That’s what we’re gonna be talking about today. Tyler, dude, it’s so awesome to have you once again. Thank you and welcome to fire builders live. Yeah, man,
Tyler Jorgenson 3:31
that is a ridiculously awesome intro. But I’m super excited to be here.
Unknown Speaker 3:35
Thank you. I’m excited, too. We, you know, we tried to make this happen. Well, like, I think ever since Barcelona, we’ve been trying to make something like this happen. I was on my way to California to see you when the lockdown happened. And now we just have to do it virtually.
Tyler Jorgenson 3:48
Yeah, you and the roosters are just stuck in cold and boring. keywest
Unknown Speaker 3:52
cold QoS Yeah, exactly. It’s, uh, you know, it’s interesting here, the I love it. I love it down here. But there’s not too much of like, online entrepreneurial community the way that there is in LA. And that’s the one thing that I kind of miss, you know, I do am now anyway, seeing the power of the show and having it open doors to learn a skill, right? Particularly Is that how you built a lot of your repertoire when it comes to e commerce aside from just doing it, you know, and learning as you went? And learning those lessons the hard way? It does help to talk to some people that know what they’re talking about, is that the vehicle that you use to do it.
Tyler Jorgenson 4:34
So for me, what it’s helped is that like, on the higher end, or the things I didn’t know, so early on, I figured out ecommerce pretty quickly, at least for my first business not like amazing, but I at least it was working. And so I started looking outside of that. So I was like, man, I want to get into retail. So I would get people I would put out a thing saying hey, I want to talk to people that have successfully gotten their products in retail, and then all the questions I was asking him on the show where about like, the things I actually had questions for, for my business. So how did you do this? And how did you get a contact? And what do you do next? And what supply chain issues Did you have and, and I just like went through my FAQs with all these people that had just done it successfully. So that was for retail, and I’d have manufacturing experts come on. And so really, I was like learning ahead of, of what I was trying to do in the business. So not just in, because in e commerce, it can be really simplified. I mean, you can do e commerce, just by drop shipping, and you’re not touching any products and things like that. But if you’re going to be if you’re actually going to own the brand, and you’re going to own the product, then there’s a lot to manage in the business. You have your whole supply chain, your whole manufacturing, you’ve got insurance issues, and all kinds of things. And so I would just have experts on every single thing I was trying to learn, come on and share with me their their experience. And sometimes you realize, hey, these guys are really smart, and they figured it out. And other times you’re like, Oh, they just got lucky. It’s a
Unknown Speaker 5:56
miracle. It is a miracle of
Tyler Jorgenson 5:58
the day. Oh, their uncle works for Walmart. That’s what happened, you know, but it’s you don’t know that until you talk to him?
Unknown Speaker 6:04
I’ll tell you, is it a situation? So I’m glad that you mentioned the drop shipping, because a lot of people when they think of e commerce, that’s immediately what they go to is dropshipping. If you were to compare dropshipping, to owning your own brand, that dealing with the supply chain issues and stuff isn’t merely personal preference, like is it a situation where you want to go your own brand route simply because you want to have your own control over everything, right? Or is there like a huge financial benefit to it as well?
Tyler Jorgenson 6:36
So both of those things come back to Yes, it’s personal meaning one of the first things I do in when we teach e commerce is start by setting out like your dream line, like what is what do you need to make to achieve your goals? It’s based out of the four hour workweek, where he talks about dream lining, which is taking all your goals, all the things you want to do all the things you want to be all the things you want to have, and putting them on a timeline. And then working that timeline backwards, say what’s my target daily income, to reach and achieve all of my goals, right. And so by using that, that calculator, you can say, Okay, this is what I need to achieve. So if your goal in launching an e commerce brand is simply to like, reach those goals, then you want to do that with the least amount of risk. And so I love dropshipping. For that reason, it minimizes your risk, especially if you’re new to the industry, you’re able to focus on learning one or two things of a learning curve instead of 12. But if your goals are like no, I want to build a brand that has maximum exit potential, I want to sell it, I want to do something like that. Well, then the higher up you move in terms of like manufacturing and owning the supply chain, the more pieces of it you can control, the more margin you can potentially create and the higher exit multiple you can probably command. So it is personal preference. But I don’t think it’s like, well, I don’t think it should be just Well, I don’t want to deal with that. I think it should be what is my objective? What’s my big goal and which path is going to get me to that goal the
Unknown Speaker 8:00
fastest? Was it when you were first starting? Which one of those was it for you?
Tyler Jorgenson 8:05
When I started it was 100% income replacement, right? Like, as you mentioned, we’re going to find out the gender of our fourth child. And that morning, I checked my bank account, it was negative $17,000 I needed a step one, just get money coming back in. And then step two, I needed to make enough money to get out of the hole, close some bank accounts, make some major changes, and then and get things going once things stabilized, then the goal shifted. And so then it went from Okay, okay, can I just replace my income to like, Can I turn this into a larger business? So for me it was we started with drop shipping, we moved to then private label drop shipping, then we moved to small batch, like contract manufacturing. And then we went to full formulation. Like our own ingredients, our own everything. It was a supplement company so that at that point, we owned government licenses, and we had all kinds of things. So we just moved up as my goals changed.
Unknown Speaker 9:00
Did it kick in the teeth a couple of times. Now like,
Tyler Jorgenson 9:04
yeah, so one of the big challenges is when your pick your niche, right, like what you decide what you’re going to do. It’s funny, like, so in the four hour workweek, like Tim Ferriss actually says, Hey, I did a supplement company, I don’t advise that you do a supplement company. Like there’s a lot of extra challenges there that you could not have to deal with somewhere else. Of course, I did a supplement company. Right, right. And I say the same thing to everyone else. So like in supplements that I mean, when anything that is ingestible someone’s consuming, you’re dealing with like, how does it affect my poop? And like, what does it do? Like you just have this whole new level of things to deal with. But the thing I didn’t realize at the time was the complexities of advertising and of merchant processing. So like just the ability to take credit cards. So in a lot of supplements, they can go from being totally okay to being blackmarket or blacklisted by both Google, Facebook and your merchant again. Count really quickly. So more than one time I would go from like things are going really well to paypal is holding all of my money.
Unknown Speaker 10:07
Tyler Jorgenson 10:07
I need to diversify off PayPal. Okay, now I have an underwritten merchant account, things are going really well, oh, they just closed my account. I can’t collect credit cards now I got to go stop Google, then oh, Google won’t allow us to advertise anymore. So like I went through every potential like business shut down, like multiple times where you’re not gonna have that if you’re doing a product that isn’t as volatile almost Yeah, volatile and regulated as like dietary supplements, right where you’re making claims like by the end of it, we held, like I said government licenses where we could make claims, we could say certain things. And it was still a challenge. Because like the merchant processors, what people don’t realize is like when you buy something with a credit card, and then that visa, whoever right, make sure that that merchant gets that money, there’s a period of time where that there’s a large amount of risk for the merchant account. Because if you do a chargeback, they give they take that money back from the vendor. But if that person has gone out of business, they can’t get that money back. And so there’s a lot of risk that people don’t really understand when they’re just shopping online. Yeah, that as a business, when you switch to business owner side, you have to really think about and so you want to think about what type of you know, is the product, I’m selling high risk? Is it have a high chance of chargebacks? Is it, you know, are people going to be frustrated with the claims or with what I’m offering. And so, you know, just looking at customer service side of it, you know, when you pick your niche is super important,
Unknown Speaker 11:33
I think, just saying that the customer service side of things, and sort of deciding which niche you want to go and not simply because it has the potential to make the most amount of money, but how much time and effort is going to be spent on customer service? How big of a chunk is customer service? In your mind? How important is it for a solid foundation for e commerce,
Tyler Jorgenson 11:54
there are a lot of things that you can do to minimize the need, like having really good frequently asked questions, having good automations in place for communicating when products ship and communicating when there’s issue for giving people a channel to have like to address things before they go to their credit card company. It’s amazing. It’s really frustrating actually, as a business owner, how our culture has kind of trained people to call their credit card company before calling the company that they actually were doing business with. Yeah, and it’s it’s honestly fraud, right? Like in credit card companies should not allow it to happen. But the customer service rep at visa or at your American Express, they don’t know. And they don’t want to deal with that. They just want to be just doing their job and processing it. But it impacts small business owners to a massive degree.
Unknown Speaker 12:38
Do you feel like that that’s systemic from just this overarching thought that customer service for companies, they’re going to ignore you like you won’t, you’re going to call somebody up and you’re not going to get a human, you’re going to get some crazy like automated system, and then they’ll tell you to send in an email and then you’ll never hear from them. It’s just like a frustrating experience.
Tyler Jorgenson 13:00
I see that as a real issue. I don’t know if that is the core? Cause I’m sure it’s a factor right up. Yeah, like there’s always more than one factor. I’m sure it’s a factor. I think it comes down to credit card companies fighting for their clients. And so making promises to their clients that they really shouldn’t, right, like, and so Stan like, if you know Visa card, and all these people are trying to battle for business and want you using their cards, then they want to serve their clients at a high level. And it almost then backfires. Because it sends this ripple downline where like I said, I mean, like, they haven’t even sent an email, but then they they’re making a claim to the credit card company. I spoke to them and they wouldn’t do this. And it’s like, just outright like,
Unknown Speaker 13:41
Tyler Jorgenson 13:42
it’s fraud at that point, and people feel okay about it. Oh, just call the credit card company. It’s like no, like, reach out to the business. Like, you wouldn’t do that. If you’re walking down the street at a farmers market, right? You buy something and you don’t like it. And so you just go push over their table. It’s like, go talk to the
Unknown Speaker 13:57
person. Yeah, I don’t know. But I handle Farmers Market disputes.
Tyler Jorgenson 14:03
Yeah. But my thing is like, I think sometimes the internet creates anonymity. And that anonymity, it’s kind of like, it’s the same thing of how people will treat each other when they’re in their car, you know, with road rage versus if they’re like, out of their car walking through the supermarket, there’s always going to be the people that are going to be pricks and they’re gonna be dishes, but for the most part, we get a lot more humanized. When we get closer. When we stand. You take the screens off, right. And so I don’t know, I don’t know the answer to it. But I know it’s frustrating for business owners.
Unknown Speaker 14:31
Yeah. What do you think? Because you mentioned the experience, right? The closeness, I would imagine that as an e commerce company, especially one that wants to create a really solid foundation. And if you’re just starting, you know, maybe, maybe you don’t really know how to do this, but how do you approach replicating such a, like a fantastic experience for people, but do it in, you know, almost like an automated way.
Tyler Jorgenson 14:56
I’m a big believer in humanizing the experience. So putting a face to a company is is a big deal. And I mean, you can look at like, a flow from Progressive Insurance, right? Like using an attractive character in business allows people to connect to a human. And so in customer service, you just signing the things from a person, you know, hey, this is Josh, right and not just thanks team fire builders,
Unknown Speaker 15:20
Tyler Jorgenson 15:20
Let them connect to somebody, you know. And the more you can throughout that entire like, process, get to know, even just about us pages, make sure you have pictures of real people, right. And I was talking with a pretty good sized company yesterday, and I read their about page and it talked about all these people on their team, but it didn’t talk about any of them specifically, it’s like we have these types of people on our on our team, like, but you don’t have a single picture of a human there. You’re not allowing people to connect to the brand, you’re making it harder. People Connect faster with people than they do with just stuff and brands. Yeah, and the brand will remind them have those connections. So what we did a lot of is and what was not necessarily what I would recommend, but at the time, I was not wanting to be the face of this diet company. And I was also like, how is emotionally fragile, and I didn’t want to do customer service as me because I wouldn’t do a good job. I would just give everyone their money back every time and just whatever. I’m a pushover. So I created a like a fake name. And Tony, and it was seriously. T gray, Tony. And Tony did customer service for that company for 11 years, like you ran customer service. And it ended up being like five or six different people over time. But Tony would answer and everyone got to know Tony, and people would like, reach out. Hey, Tony, can you check and see, and whoever was Tony at the time would just be like, yeah, let me see. And then eventually, you know, Tony got promoted. And then you know, there’s there was an April. But the point was, is that people connected because it was a name and in person. You know, again, that’s another early question the business right? If you’re getting started in Econ, or in any business, am I going to be the face of it? And if not, who is going to be? And I think it’s like I’m not a huge proponent picking papers, I prefer to be a real person. But I’ve known people that they ran their business, even just as their middle name. Because they’re like, I need it to be me. But I needed to separate from like my digital footprint, right? Yeah. Different and still allow it to be human. So that’s my like long winded answers. You’re saying find ways to make it human find ways to connect?
Unknown Speaker 17:21
Yeah, hell yeah. And, and I think for anybody listening, that is an amazing tip is, is to just do that. Try it, especially if you’re just starting out. And I’ll tell you like, speaking of starting out, right. Now, one of the things that we talked about was, as people begin these journeys, right, the one thing I like to ask guests as they come on, as they begin to build a foundation, what have you learned the Tyler like, like, if you could suggest that they do one thing, just as they’re starting out? To start off on the right foot? What would that thing be?
Tyler Jorgenson 17:53
It’s interesting that I think some businesses are, you can do something that’s like, Oh, I want you to read this book, or I want you to do this particular extra, I want you to do this. And with e commerce or any business, to me, the thing that someone really needs to do is become a student of the marketing. There’s this old saying, and it’s sometimes sad, because like, I’ll go and I’ll speak on ideation or on business. And I’ll hear like other people speaking at the same, like, they’ll speak before me sometimes, and they’ll say this adage, if you build a better mousetrap, the whole world will beat down a path to your door, like to buy it. And then I get up and I say that’s absolute garbage. They won’t even know
Unknown Speaker 18:31
you’re popular this
Tyler Jorgenson 18:32
conference. Yeah. And so and it’s it’s tough. It’s like it’s I’m usually speaking it like UCLA. And it’s like, and here we have the professor of business from Pepperdine, and then like, and then now we have some radio schmuck, Tyler. And I’m just like, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Right. And like I have to, I tried to do it diplomatically. But a lot of times, I’m just like, No, he’s reading from a textbook. He’s not doing this. And I absolutely throw stones at the, like the old school education side, I think some schools are adapting, but you can’t teach marketing from 1950 anymore, like, and then it really didn’t work that way. Like, you’re talking like that level of ideation. Nobody knows you exist. No one knows that your business is there, right? So the biggest thing, I don’t care if you’re, if you’re dropshipping, or you invented the world’s next best mousetrap, you have to learn how to market and get that product in front of people. The single biggest leverage piece that you can do is to become a student of marketing, because then you can go and apply that into any business you’re doing, whether it’s ecommerce, or whether it’s a brick and mortar or whether it’s a service based business. And so the Facebook ads library is one of my favorite places to research. So you literally just go into this library that Facebook makes public, type in your competitors and look at what kind of ads they’re running. And then you can look at how long they’ve been running. And if they’re a well run company, if an ad has been running for a long time, you know that it’s working Right.
Unknown Speaker 20:00
That’s your metric for success at that point.
Tyler Jorgenson 20:03
Yeah, or but you also just see what they’re testing. And then beyond just the ad, which is super important, okay, what kind of images were they running? What kind of headlines were they doing? Were they running videos where you know, all beyond that? It’s but what is the offer? Like? are they sending straight to a first purchase? Are they doing a free trial? Are they doing a free plus shipping? Are they doing, right? What are they selling? And what how are they getting people to buy it for the first time?
Unknown Speaker 20:27
What have you found personally as you go through those initial motions, and let’s just say that you create this MVP site, and you have a new idea, you have a new product, you’ve reinvented yourself, and you start running ads to it right now? Do you kind of feel it out? Like if you run ads to it for two weeks, and you don’t get any bites at all, you say to yourself, what’s the first thing that you say to yourself at that point,
Tyler Jorgenson 20:49
I fully expect offers to fail first. I think that’s just the mindset I go into it with. But then I look for, like, what works. So we start with, like, either 1000 clicks or $1,000 test. And we’re like, Look, let’s just get data, we’re gonna do our best first guess. But I don’t know how every market is going to respond. We start at the very beginning, talking about picking a niche, I think picking niches really matters. Because if you have a really hot niche of people like, and I look at a niche as not like, Okay, I’m going to sell like this particular product, but who is the market I’m selling to? Right, the niche is the market, and then you pick a product vertical within that. And so I think finding something where you know, there’s an irrationally passionate market just is going to help move a lot faster, trying to go mass market unless you have really deep pockets. Super, super hard to do.
Unknown Speaker 21:39
Tyler, in your experience, do you see benefit to launching a brand new product through ads just before the holidays? What do you think?
Tyler Jorgenson 21:48
So I like this, because it implies that there’s a good time or a bad time to launch? Yes, the only benefit is if you want to have sales just before the holidays. Right? So again, beginning with the end in mind, right? If the end goal is to sell products, then launch when you’re ready, right? Yes, you’re gonna have slightly higher ad costs. Yes, you’re gonna have a little bit more competition? Yes, they’re gonna have some supply chain issues. We’re making sure if people are expecting it before Christmas, you’re getting it to them before Christmas. But my thing is launch, right? Just keep moving. Don’t wait for the perfect time. Because all of a sudden, what the next question if I said no, oh, you should definitely wait is well, I don’t know. I don’t know if I should like January one. That’s when everyone else is launching. And then I and then they’re like, Well, you know, it’s St. Patrick’s Day. And then all of a sudden, it’s Fourth of July. And like I can’t launch on Independence Day. So yeah, like my thing is, launch, be conservative, learn from the data. If you can be successful in the more competitive times, it’s just going to get better in the less competitive times. In the end, you got to like, control what you can write, you concentrate on what matters and then like, cope with what you can’t control. Like, if you can’t fix it, I can’t control Facebook. I can’t control if they shut down an ad account, but I can cope with it. And then I can concentrate on like, stuff I can control and focus on what matters. But yeah, yeah, in the end, you’ve got to just stay focused on that. And as much as possible disconnect or what I always say, if you can’t disconnect from it, then just limit the amount of time that you allow yourself to feel sorry for yourself. Give yourself 30 seconds to like, pout, and then move on.
Unknown Speaker 23:19
Then like get it out of your system. Yeah, go. Yeah, I totally dig it, man. Dude, I learned a ton. Right? There were some things I mean, cuz you and I, we had a conversation. Our first like, major conversation was in Barcelona. We talked a lot about this. And I think at the time, you had just done the 176 shop buy stores in nine months, which just blows my mind. Like how you were able to make that happen. But we went through some stuff in this call that I you know, we didn’t talk about I learned a lot here. Yeah, that
Tyler Jorgenson 23:50
it was our conversation that helped me realize, like, I did those $176 for this big investment group. And I was like, I think I need to leave this project. And I made that decision. While we were talking, you know, right after we had finished making pie a, it was like, This is the wrong wrong move for me. But so by that night i i’d like resigned and moved on from the project. But it was a cool experience just to launch. I mean, everyone was supposed to be in a different niche and a different experience. So granting,
Unknown Speaker 24:18
so a lot. And now when you launch a single store, or you just like, Yeah, whatever. Yeah. Yeah, I
Tyler Jorgenson 24:25
mean, the thing is, there’s then it’s also knowing which part you’re really good at, right? So I’m really good at the idea, the initial concept, the initial branding, like I’m good at the beginning, I’m a great starter. I have to hire a team of finishers, right, like and people that do the day to day, because that’s not my strength and I am at a I’m at an age of life, where I just am leaning into my strengths and I’m trying to like focus on fixing weaknesses. If it’s a weakness that’s impacting my life. I’m going to focus on it but I don’t have to be the expert in everything, right. We can hire teams, we can network, we can connect with experts. I’m just like You know what I’m really good at starting. So that’s my focus.
Unknown Speaker 25:03
So tell everybody, because I know that some people here will want to continue the conversation. That’s essentially what you’re doing with e commerce flight school, you know, like, tell us a little bit about that, and how people can get in contact with you.
Tyler Jorgenson 25:14
Yeah, so it’s funny, it really is exactly what I just said, it’s how to start your store and go from zero to launch in 30 days, how to pick your niche, how to set your goals and your dream line, how to get how to get launched in 30 days, there are a ton of people that have lessons on scale and let and courses on ads. And there’s tons of people that do that. But from my experience, most people struggle getting started. And so I built a program on really how to get started and how to get you know, set yourself up for success. So it’s called e commerce flight school. And because I just think it’s the idea of it taking flight. And for me, it’s we start with the dream line, because it’s about creating the lifestyle that you want, right? If you’re building a business that you hate, and it’s taken away out of the lifestyle you want, like start over, change it up doing it wrong.
Unknown Speaker 26:01
Yeah. And you go through, you take people essentially, through the process that you described here, you know, going from ideation, right, the dream lining, and then starting and choosing a niche and just executing. I think that that’s so key, then, is it a situation where it’s a community of people, like you can come in, you can ask your questions, like, take it day by day.
Tyler Jorgenson 26:22
Yeah, so we have, we have a private Facebook group, for anybody that’s purchased the course, the course is on sale right now to the end of the year, because we are in beta, right, it’s launched and it’s live, and it works, but it’s not where I want it to be. And so eventually the price will go up, you know, four times from where it is now. We have you know, a Facebook group, you can ask questions and a community where people help each other. It’s just getting going, but it’s it’s really cool. It’s something I’ve wanted to do for a long time, I felt that called a contribution to help people get started. And you know, we do it in an agency where people can spend a lot more money and have us hire us to do it for them. But there’s a lot of people that want to learn and they want to do it themselves. And that’s why we created e commerce flight school.
Unknown Speaker 26:59
Yeah, I dig it, man. Dude, this was so good. I mean, we’ve been talking now for 15 minutes this went by really fast. I tell you, I am so thankful that you took the time you were a busy man, I know that you got a lot going on but I’m so appreciative that you took the time to talk to us today. So thank you so much.
Tyler Jorgenson 27:16
Yeah, absolutely Josh anytime and we can’t move around as much but we’ll be traveling the world again here soon. Thank you for tuning in to biz ninja entrepreneur radio. What you didn’t hear was one more very important question that Tyler asks each guest if you want to be a fly on the wall when the real secrets are shared, go to biz ninja.com slash VIP and get your access today. Remember to subscribe so that you don’t miss any future episodes. And our one last favor. If this episode was meaningful to you, please share this podcast with a fellow entrepreneur so they can grow along with us is ninjas. It’s your turn to go out and do something