The Transcript Is Auto-Generated And May Contain Grammar And Spelling Errors
Announcer 0:01
You’re listening to biz ninja entrepreneur radio. This show was created for entrepreneurs, business owners, marketers and dreamers who want to learn from the experts of today and drastically shortcut their own success to build a business that supports their dream lifestyle. Since 2011, Tyler Jorgensen has been interviewing business thought leaders from around the world, a serial entrepreneur himself, Tyler also shares his personal insights into what’s working in business today. Welcome to biz ninja, entrepreneur, radio.
Tyler Jorgenson 0:38
All right, welcome out to busy ninja entrepreneur Radio. I’m your host, Tyler Jorgensen. And today we have the 2017 Ey Entrepreneur of the Year, the author of the good entrepreneur and the man behind Nick Kennedy coaching Nick Kennedy, welcome out to the show.
Nick Kennedy 0:55
Hey, thanks so much for having me on. It’s good to be your Tyler.
Tyler Jorgenson 0:57
I’m excited. It’s all good to talk entrepreneurship, that the challenges that are sometimes hidden behind a successful entrepreneur, we’re gonna talk wins and losses, and that will probably lead us to baseball a little bit. But my first question for you, Nick, is When was the moment that you first realized you were
Nick Kennedy 1:15
an entrepreneur? Man, I think probably my freshman year in college, I’ve faced the existential question of do I get up for breakfast? Or do I go straight to class and, and, and I realized I didn’t want to wake up any earlier than I needed to. And so my roommate and I, Mark went to Walmart, bought a flat skillet and started making pancakes for ourselves. And then I realized all the other guys in the dorm wanted the same thing. And so we opened a pancake business it was it was thriving for about 24 hours until the IRA shut us down for health concerns. But I really love the idea that if I had a problem, probably other people had a problem. And if that was the case, it annoyed me enough, I could go actually fix those problems. And in doing so, and not only make money doing it, but create a community. Like you’re the guy who started the thing, right. And, and so that’s probably was my first entrepreneurial venture, my freshman year of college, and I just ever since that I’ve just loved the idea that if something bugs you enough, you can go, you can go create a solution for it. And if it’s good enough people pay for it.
Tyler Jorgenson 2:15
I love that because it was like a spark went off. You’re like, wait a minute, this may not have worked. But this this was something this gave me the the blueprint, right? And you’re right. I mean, the idea is that if you have a problem, when I teach entrepreneurship, sometimes I say, like, look for things that suck. Because if you think it sucks, it probably sucks for other people to not very sophisticated or fancy, but it’s a good it’s a good thing to keep an eye out for.
Nick Kennedy 2:41
I always say like, you know, your product can be complicated, but your business should be simple. If your business is too, too complicated, there’s a good chance your business is in a really good business, or she should find a way to simplify it. Right. And I think this is the this is the world of entrepreneurship I write about in the book that I posit that entrepreneurship started 80,000 years ago, on the shores of Morocco. And we found these snail shells, now hundreds of miles inland. And the theory is that these people would take these snail shells, they would put holes in them, they would decorate them, and they would trade them as jewelry. So 80,000 years ago, Neanderthals and Homo sapiens roamed the earth together. We all know that, you know, we, the HomoSapiens became the year we were and the animals died off, even though they were stronger. Their brains were bigger, like everything should have said they should be the group that has succeeded. But the number one theory on why they fail to succeed was because they didn’t share resources. So contrast to us to homosapien who takes the snail shells and says, basically, you’ve got something I want. And I’ve got something you want, how about we trade and we both come out better for it. So I actually think entrepreneurship is the third main invention behind fire and stone tools of human advancements. And so, you know, if you’re an entrepreneur, like go do something really good, but recognize you’re just aiming on the shoulders of multiple, multiple generations. And our job is to make sure it’s better for the next generation, make sure that we don’t just get with ours to the detriment of everybody else, that we actually are looking to build things that are of some worth looking to build into our employees, our investors, our communities across the board. I think entrepreneurship has been anything that good that we have has come from an entrepreneur taking that risk and saying I want to go build something better.
Tyler Jorgenson 4:30
I like that angle that it’s about shared resources, and you share through an exchange of value, right, but you still is still sharing it still has to happen has to be facilitated. So we’ve talked pancakes and we’ve talked about decorated seashells. What was your first business like the actual business that you started working on?
Nick Kennedy 4:47
So I got a job out of college to work for Ross Perot EDS lead he had actually just left but his legacy was was huge there and while I enjoyed learning from kind of Ross’s first principles and all the things that he did at EDS, also recognize that I was not built to be in a cube. And the first time I had a chance, someone said, Hey, we’re going to start a business, would you be interested? I said, Absolutely. You know, get me out of here. All the smart people said, don’t leave, you’ve got a good job and 401k and all this stuff. And I said, I’m sorry, I can’t do it. So we started this business called it, it was checking kiosk business. We built it, we sold it to national cash register, in a pretty quick period of time. And that was my real eye opening experience of not only can you No Forget pancakes for a second, you can actually go take something that had never been done before, generate millions of dollars of enterprise value, and then really sell to a corporation who wants that secret sauce, but it’s too big, lethargic to actually go do that. And then from there, I worked. I was fortunate to work with some guys who were incredibly successful, and they invested in some oncology businesses, etc. My big business, the first one I ever started, really, in grew and sold was an airline. It was called
Tyler Jorgenson 5:55
wherever a good entrepreneur starts isn’t starting airlines. Yeah, okay.
Nick Kennedy 6:00
Well, I had one of the investors in those businesses was a billionaire on a private plane. And I and I had been traveling 2 million miles and a decade on American Airlines up front all the time, first class all the time, it was miserable. The experience was horrible. And I got to write.
Tyler Jorgenson 6:14
Now, that’s a lot of flying. But most people don’t say, Yeah, I flew first class. And it was horrible. But okay.
Nick Kennedy 6:20
Well, this is my, this is my point, right, we’ve taken one of the greatest inventions of all time flying. And at the time, when I started this airline, it was third worst and customer satisfaction between behind insurance and health care. Oh, like the airlines in general. For airlines in general, the experience was so bad. And so I got a chance to fly private. And I didn’t realize it at the time. But I had been doing 10 years of market research. And what I realized was flying private, is 10 times better than flying commercial, but it also costs 10 times as much so very few people can afford it. And right around the time, AirBnB and Uber were growing and then created these two sided marketplaces. And I thought, what if we could, I thought, Well, I’m gonna go buy a plane myself, because I can have breakfast with my family, go to another city for work and be back in time for soccer practice writing up my cake and eat it too. And then I realized that’s really dumb to buy a plane by yourself. Pro tip listeners don’t, don’t ever buy a plane. It’s a really bad investment. But I wondered it, you know, if I had been doing this and needed this, what about all the other people that were sitting next to me who look like zombies who gained too much weight, who were sleepless all the things that go on, we travel a lot. And it turns out, lots of people want access to a private plane. And so we did the shared model, we create a membership, we charged a flat monthly fee for scheduled service here in Texas, between Dallas Houston, Austin, Midland, right, San Antonio, and 1000s of people flew on us 10s of 1000s of people flew on us. And I had no experience in the airline industry up to that point. But it turns out, there are lots of planes sitting around in these in these hangars. And so we we kind of, we sat in the middle and created the two of these, these two sided marketplaces together, it’s really fun.
Tyler Jorgenson 8:02
That’s beyond fun. So there’s so much to unpack in that story. Because again, most people wouldn’t think, oh, you know, I don’t like flying, I’ll start an airline. But it not only that, you didn’t necessarily go and acquire all of these, you know, and spend billions of dollars on acquiring assets and capital expenditure. But you basically created a system to bridge bridge unutilized resources with people who are looking for a better experience, what was the biggest challenge in bringing that to market? And how did you overcome it,
Nick Kennedy 8:32
we had to go get FAA and Department of Transportation Authority to go do this. And so that meant we had to go and ask for permission. No one had ever done this before, what we were trying to do where we didn’t really control the planes, but we it was under our brand and everything. So I contracted with plane operators, they had to brand their planes, but they’re Libery on the planes and pilots and our uniforms, etc. The branding was all that. And so we went up there and I remember going into the D O T and you had to apply for authority to go do this. And what they’re concerned about the FAA is concerned about safety. The D O T is concerned about consumerism, consumer safety so people aren’t getting ripped off. And I walked in and I sat down and more and more people came on the other side of the table and I turn to my attorney, there’s 12 people across the table from us. And I said, why are all these people here? And she said, Well, you’re like the two headed snake at the State Fair. Like everybody wants to see this. You know who’s not everyday an idiot walks in here and says, I want to start an airline thinking, I’m paying 800 bucks to boot so I can be laughed at. And I told them my story. And after 90 minutes of telling the story and why we weren’t going to cut corners anywhere, right? I told him how we were gonna do it safely. I told him we’d gone through the regulations like we’d found the right partners. But what’s super cool is we were given access to our members. But the average plane in America at that time flew 240 hours a year. So I would go to these operators and say look, I’m going to take that same plane that’s in your hangars and I’m going to to I’m gonna TEDx and I’m gonna fight 2000 hours minimum a year, I’m going to 10x your fuel, I’m going to use your pilot’s more like we created these economies of scale. And so I, when I sat down and told to do tea, this, they, they said, Hey, we will do anything we can to help because the big airlines have so much lobbying power, there’s almost nothing we can do to help. And because it’s such a high barrier of entry, no one wants to get in here, I walked away from there thinking, man, we’ve got this done. And it turned into nine months of waiting. And I’ve hired people and I paid in planes and like, the cash we’re supposed to be using to grow is now being used just to keep the doors open, I’m not taking a salary, my wife, you know, our marriage is not doing good, like all the things are going on. So that was the hardest part was just the waiting, because you had to have the authority to go do that. And as an entrepreneur, you know, we’re not we’re very impatient. And that was really hard for me to wade through that process.
Tyler Jorgenson 10:47
So that that patience of being able to say no, I believe in this vision, we’re going to keep pushing, we’re going to get get in the air, we’re going to do that. But you also highlight on a couple of the other expenses that happened during that time, because when entrepreneurs birthing a new idea, it takes a lot of time and energy. And that can oftentimes create a void in other parts of life. Right? So what do you see as some of the challenges facing entrepreneurs right now, from a, from like, a broader perspective, like impacting the self.
Nick Kennedy 11:19
So my, my book, The good entrepreneur, it’s 10 chapters of how do you go out, it’s history of entrepreneurship and how to go build an airline, right? Apply it to your own business. The last few chapters really, though, is posts. So I sell the business in chapter nine, or excuse me, chapter 10, and 11. And 12, is really reflecting back on the journey, what I had to realize, and what I’ve done in the research of writing the book is recognize that there are very few examples of healthy human beings who are successful entrepreneurs. I mean, Steve Jobs, amazing. Inventor, amazing leader, etc, horrible, horrible in relationships. Elon Musk, amazing inventor, you would not want him to be your dad, right? I mean, like, you look at these people that we hold up and say, hey, they’re the greatest in the world. And the reality is, they probably are really poor in relationships you want to be you wouldn’t want to be married to him, you wouldn’t want to be in your family, love my Tesla love my iPhone, but that’s where it ends, right. And so really the journey, and I was in that place. Now, I came from a position of when I was 16, my dad went to prison for 20 years. So I have this huge chip on my shoulder, I had this like, I went from upper middle class to like figuring out how to, you know how to make it work. I’m one of the few guys on the face of the earth who spent hundreds of hours in a private plane and hundreds of hours at a prison visiting room to places you that you can’t find farther apart. And yet I can tell you for a fact, it’s less than five decisions that determine which one you’re at. And you can be completely in prison in a private plane and completely free in a prison cell. Sure. And so and I got done, I, you know, did a lot of hard work and had a lot of friends that came around and said, you know, quite frankly, you you be weren’t the best husband, you weren’t the best father, you weren’t the best friends, you need to go do some work on yourself. And so I’m on this journey that really asked that answer that question you’re asking, which is, can you be great as an entrepreneur, as a leader, and great as a human being, because I firmly believe that you can’t separate your private life from your personal life, or your your public life and your hurts, and hangups and your private life, the things that your wife and kitten fights about, and your friends get in fights about etc, are the exact same things manifested differently in your business life. And your passions and joy in your business life are also going to be the passions and joy in your personal life. And so this whole book is this question, which is, can we be holistically the same person healthy? And the same? Monday through Fridays? I am Saturday and Sunday? And if so, what’s the work? What’s the path we have to go to go do that because look, make a ton of money. That’s the bare minimum, like never less than profits, make a ton of money, get your own private plane, don’t get your own private plane, but get your own, you know, McLaren or second house or third house, whatever. But recognize that’s not going to it’s not going to be a solved to your wounds that you’re trying to figure out as you grow your business. And that’s the path I think is really fascinating to explore as we encourage entrepreneurs to continue to press the edges and make sure that there’s additional growth. Yeah, in humanity.
Tyler Jorgenson 14:14
A friend of mine who is had really big success and realize like he has all the money that he needs right and he’s now he’s achieving for because he enjoys it. But he said he realized that money doesn’t fix anything, right? Like if, if in the end, like you get all this money, but you have broken relationships. And he was really interesting. He was talking about things like 75 hard and some of these other really aggressive programs and he’s like, it’s so much more impactful if you take that energy and put it in fixing the hard parts of your relationships and the hard parts of your life instead of just doing these things that are like looked at on social media or it’s like the appearance of mental toughness, but he’s like it’s so much more real and lasting if you just go fix the hard parts of your in your usually your personal life right and For some reason, I think business, it’s easier to face business failures, it’s easier to face business wins than it is sometimes to approach those more vulnerable interpersonal things.
Nick Kennedy 15:10
Yeah, I think you’re right. I mean, I think there’s two things to respond to that, number one, there’s no worse deal in the world than the morning after you sell your business, and you wake up with more money you never had, and nobody cares about your opinion anymore. I mean, I mean, that was a real, I mean, that’s been overly dramatic, I’m really excited
Tyler Jorgenson 15:27
for no one to care about. That’s why I do an interview show. I just like, other people have good opinions.
Nick Kennedy 15:32
But when you go from being a CEO of hundreds, you know, these employees and you and like, you get into this mode of reading your own press, and like, whatever you say, it’s the smartest thing in the world. I mean, it shouldn’t be right, but I get one. And then you don’t sign your paychecks anymore. And they’re kind of like, you start to be exposed really quickly. And, and you’re right, I mean, you exchange I mean, money is like the look, it’s a great way to keep score. And it all it does really is allow your life to be a little bit easier if you don’t go overboard. But man, if you have, if you’re broken before, what pour, you’re going to be broken, when you’re rich. Yeah. And to your to your friends point, like you’ve got to go do the work, you’ve got to sit in the work recognize the things that man that need to need to, to go into to actually explore and do that in a safe manner. And when you do that, man, everything matters, and you won’t care how much money you have, it doesn’t matter at that point, because you’ve actually done the hard work on yourself.
Tyler Jorgenson 16:31
Yeah. And obviously, you know, to people who are maybe farther, like in the earlier on in their journey, they may feel that that comes off with a little bit of, you know, privilege or whatever. But the reality is, I’ve seen people who have very little, with a much deeper sense of purpose, a much deeper sense of connection, a much deeper sense of like, peace than people who are sitting on wealth that I can’t even fathom. And that it isn’t because money does is the is the solution, right? It’s just because it was perspective, it was approach it was connectivity. So I want to unpack a little bit more of this journey of yours, because again, most people don’t just go and start, you know, a as their first founding business, they don’t start an airline, you weren’t, you didn’t run it for a super long time. Like what led you to wanting to move that quickly through that business.
Nick Kennedy 17:26
You know, any entrepreneur who is worth his or her salt and is willing to tell the truth will acknowledge how much luck played into their their success. And the reality is the market we were building in Texas and I built it there because I lived there, I didn’t do a ton of market research was either the number one or number two market in the country that and the West Coast, la San Francisco, etc. number one or number two for the business we were building and there was a another business on the on the West Coast sir fair, that was incredibly well funded that needed to needed the Texas market. And so worked out well from that perspective. You know, I think that there are I think there are people who can do both. But I think in general, most people are really good zero to one or one to 1.1. And, and I am in the zero to one world where I like to take something that doesn’t exist and make it exist. But after that, like, you know, I’m gonna tell you what kind of trains to run and go over the mountain or through the mountain, but the price of tickets and how to decorate them. But after that I don’t really I’m not interested in making sure the trains run on time. Sure. So I think I’d gotten enough. And then by the way, that’s incredibly dumb for all you entrepreneurs out there in the sense that like, all the money is made, making sure the trains run.
Tyler Jorgenson 18:41
But it’s also self aware, right? It’s also realizing like, the worst thing is if someone thinks someone is really like, I’m a zero to one guy, but they’re pretending to be a one to five guy, right? That’s actually dangerous. So at least you’re
Nick Kennedy 18:55
all in what and what’s easy. And what’s even real dangerous is when you go and you think you’re you’re zero to one guy and you’ve taken on investments and and or responsibility in such a way that you have to be the one to five guy or gal and that gets really dangerous because you can do it. I mean, the question for entrepreneurs is not what can I do? Right? The question is, what should I do? Because the answer with regards to what can you do? Like if you start an airline, like there’s very few things you can’t go do it not only am if I don’t do what I should be doing? Am I going to probably not be the best at it. I’m also robbing that opportunity for somebody else who’s actually designed to go do that. So it’s this kind of like, macro level view of like, Oh, what am I spending my time and how does that affect other people, which is, I think really important
Tyler Jorgenson 19:37
to think through. I totally agree. I think it’s similar to the idea you know, from good to great and getting the right people on the bus. If like you have to recognize when you are the bus driver and when you should be the navigator, right. Sometimes you have to step out and we see that a lot in founder founder owned businesses, where the there’s the founders dilemma where they get faced with this challenge where they’re no longer leading the company the way should be. And you look at even massive examples like Google where the founders had to step back, allow someone else to run it for a season while they like matured and grew, before they could step back into leading and driving again. And so Sheryl
Nick Kennedy 20:14
Sandberg with Mark, right, she had to come alongside and give him that operation side, that’s not his particular skill set at Facebook or at Meta now.
Tyler Jorgenson 20:21
Yeah, and I’m a big believer. Life is short, like, we should be leaning into things that can be profitable, but also that we enjoy, like we should find growth in and so forcing yourself to be in a role that isn’t the right fit for too long can come at a big cost. Right. And so, um, so you you ended up what do you end up selling to the other the other company and and, and then working for them for a while?
Nick Kennedy 20:45
Yep. Yeah, sold, sold it and worked for them for a while turns out I’m still a pretty bad employee. I don’t know if they’d say that. But I definitely I just don’t do well, as you know, working for other people. That’s that entrepreneurial side of things. Yeah. And then, you know, during this time, I started doing this, I started doing this work, which was really spending some time going through some leadership training, spending some time one on one with some people who, who, you know, provided a mere he, they remove the fog from the mirror, and let me see who I really who I really was. And you know, when you’re when you’re a kid that grows up with your dad in prison, there’s not much you won’t do to get to what you want to get to, right. I mean, when you have nothing to lose, you have nothing to lose. And I had to recognize that the survival instincts I learned when I was a teenager when no longer necessary as a 40 year old. And the several survival instincts I learned that provided me really well actually are a horrible hindrance in my marriage. I, you know, I don’t need to bring my abandonment issues up anytime my wife disagrees with me as if that’s the final straw, right? I mean, these things that cause these wounds, with employees, with spouses, with children, with friends with family members, and to do that work, and to be clear about that work is what I did. And so now what I do, I call myself micro retire. That’s my next book coming out micro retirement, right. And this is gonna sound incredibly privileged, but I’ll just say it, my wife and I, we work two weeks, we do two weeks of revenue generation, and then two weeks of non revenue generation work. And I don’t believe you know, retirement didn’t exist before World War One, this idea that you should work until your 60s until you’re tired and can’t do anything, and just can just walk off into the sunset. It’s just I think, like a horrible harebrained idea. Yeah, and I totally privileged to say that, but I’m, we’re right now saying, hey, what do we want to do now? Why we have our children home, why we while we’re doing this, and so the first product of my micro retirement was this book, I wrote, The good entrepreneur, that came out of that, by the way, writing the book is a horrible revenue generating proposition for anybody, don’t do it for the money, do it, do it, it’s amazing, but don’t do it cuz you’re gonna make any money. But, and then and then the other time, I spent time doing executive coaching work one on one or in group settings with what I call the tip of the spear, either founders owners, and or C level executives, where they often don’t have peers that they can be honest with, I was just on a call with a client this morning, who said, Man, I, you know, I want to tell my board this, but I have no idea if they’re gonna if I do this, what they’re going to do and the leverage, and I’ve got another round coming in. And, and I mean, I just sit there in those moments and go, Okay, let’s, let’s untangle. Let’s move some of that remove some of the chaos and some of the fog. And let’s get clear about what we should do in this situation and how it plays out for the next year, five year 10 year and 20 years as you think about building legacy. And, and that’s what I get to do now, which is, which like, I, I feel like I’m not even working, because I’m just feel the sacred moments that I get to spend are just what I’m called to do in this season in my life.
Tyler Jorgenson 23:49
That’s really neat. It’s challenging to find good coaches, because so many times the coach or the mentor is someone who’s too close to what you’re currently doing. And so there’s ego involved, right. But if you have to find someone that’s not only farther ahead, but has the experience, understands and has the clarity of mindset, so they can be given you the right type of coaching and right type of feedback. So i By the way, I love the idea of two weeks on two weeks off, I love the idea of you know, mini or micro retirements. I think lifestyle design is a huge part of what this show was, has been about for over a decade. You know, we had Tim Ferriss on the show, and that was a big part of what we talked about was, you know, you know, building the life you actually want and I think that comes down to getting clear on what you want. Right? So how do you help the people that you coach get clear on what their ideal life really is?
Nick Kennedy 24:40
You know, the first thing we do is we go back to the very beginning. I mean, we do a life walk, High Times heroes hard times history, and we start to understand the patterns that the healthy patterns that have gotten us to where we are and the unhealthy patterns that have gotten us to where we are, and we honor those all those situations. And once we do that we can start to strip away from who, here’s who I am today, and the healthy parts that got me here versus the unhealthy parts that got me here. And when you can start to do that you can go, man, it turns out, you’re really not a very good CEO. Operator, you’re a founder CEO, like you were saying earlier with regards to, you know, to my conversation, I mean, man, if you met me four years ago, I would have I would have just said, Man, I build it, I can run it, I can do it all like, because I thought I needed to be that but there’s so much freedom in saying look, that’s just for somebody else to go work on. So the first thing we do is we we break down to what I firmly believe that if you think about like, looking through a scope of a gun, your your vertical line there is your, your talents, you come out of the womb with certain talents, right? Some of us are engineers, some of us are leaders and communicators, some of us are finders keepers, right. And then you cross that I think every day on this earth has had some sort of purpose to it. So if you cross that with your horizontal line with your history, man, you can get really close, not necessarily exactly what you should be doing with your time, but you can eliminate in a world of unlimited options, you can eliminate a whole bunch of them. And you can say, Look, that’s really for Tyler to be doing. That’s Tyler’s role, that’s not Nick’s role. So not only do I not feel the pressure to go be something that I can do, right? Because we’re all entrepreneurs, we can do whatever the heck we want. I can say, that’s not what I should be spending my time. And, and by the way, I’m not going to rob that from Tyler, because that’s what Tyler’s should be doing. Right? And so we spend time doing that. And then we overlay that with, well, guess what, you just took $15 million of funding, guess what you, you know, you know, you’ve hired these people, guess what, you just open this factory, guess what, you got all these other obligations? So how do we mend these together? And sometimes the answer is double down. And sometimes the answer is, hey, the role for us needs to look different going forward? Or sometimes the answer is you got to spend the next three years to grow your revenue to x, because you made you made these obligations. So let’s go do that really well. But let’s start planning for you that posts three years that there’s a different life. And that’s minutes every aspect of their life. That’s the business. That’s the family and that’s financial. That’s the health. That’s the vacation, that’s everything we look at and go what’s an ideal life look
Unknown Speaker 27:08
like? Yeah,
Nick Kennedy 27:10
we scope that out. And then we put a plan together to get you there.
Tyler Jorgenson 27:13
I love that. The for most people, this is a harder question. But you know, life and business business about building lifestyle you want exactly what you just mapped out? What is one item on your personal bucket list you’re going to accomplish in the next 12 months?
Nick Kennedy 27:27
Well, that’s a good question I, we spent a lot of time in we’ve a place up in Colorado. And last year, I spent about 100 days up there. And my goal is to spend about 200 days up there this year, I don’t know if I’ll quite get there or not. But one of the things I’m called to do is to create experiences that lead to truth telling and life change. And so I’m in the best place in the world because I get to go to Colorado on the outside and I just got back from skiing with some buddies up there. It’s clients or not, I get to take people skiing, or horseback riding or mountain biking or just fly fishing or whatever it is. And that’s like, that’s what I love doing. And it also is what enables us to have deep conversations and no nowhere. So one of my goals is to spend more and more time outdoors and in the mountains and with people where we’re having these just we’ll spend hours and hours together to have a five minute conversation that can be life changing.
Tyler Jorgenson 28:14
Yeah, I think that’s amazing. Nick, I really appreciate coming out to this show. Tom I business just wherever you’re listening, go check out Nick at Nick Kennedy coaching check out his book, The good entrepreneur. You can also find him on Instagram at Nick Kennedy underscore IG. And to all my businesses wherever you’re listening, watching streaming, downloading whatever it may be, it’s your turn to go out and do something.
Announcer 28:38
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