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Announcer 0:01
You’re listening to biz ninja entrepreneur radio. This show was created for entrepreneurs, business owners, marketers and dreamers who want to learn from the experts of today and drastically shortcut their own success to build a business that supports their dream lifestyle. Since 2011, Tyler Jorgensen has been interviewing business thought leaders from around the world a serial entrepreneur himself. Tyler also shares his personal insights into what’s working in business today. Welcome to biz ninja, entrepreneur radio.
Tyler Jorgenson 0:39
Welcome out to biz ninja entrepreneur radio. I am your host, Tyler Jorgensen. And today we have all the way from the frosty north, the beautiful Boise, Idaho we have Thomas McMahon and Thomas is the Senior Business Development Manager at a place called Clickbank and if you’ve been in internet marketing, direct response, or if you just been selling stuff online, you know about Clickbank. They’re a really cool company that helps merchants and product and offer owners sell more product through a team and network of affiliates. But they’re doing a lot more than that. So we’re going to talk not only about what’s going on at Clickbank but also how Thomas got here and his six years there and what else he’s seeing in the market in the industry. Welcome onto the show, Thomas.
Thomas McMahon 1:21
Yeah, thanks so much for having me. Tyler. It’s gonna be great. Yeah, can be wildly
Tyler Jorgenson 1:25
exciting and beautiful. Boise, I’m gonna put it on a t shirt. Now. It’s a thing.
Thomas McMahon 1:29
It’s on fast, man. It’s been it’s been crazy being up here.
Tyler Jorgenson 1:33
We just call it California north now. Yeah. Thomas, super awesome to have you out. I think you and I first met four or five years ago, you were just getting started. I think you were still in your first role at Clickbank. I think we met through the Clickfunnels. Community. Let’s go right off the bat. What has changed in direct response in the last five years? Like what are some of the big like, Whoa, man, this is different?
Thomas McMahon 1:59
Yeah, I think compliance is always something that direct response has to be knowledgeable about and concerned about a little bit, right. And that’s something that we’ve seen shift pretty dramatically. When I first started at Clickbank about six years ago, we had just rolled out a big compliance shift, and really updated compliance policies which upset a lot of existing clients because they’d go change sales letters and all kinds of sales copy and stuff like that. A year after that two years after that, you know, Facebook started implementing a lot of the same stuff we had. And then Google’s implementing a lot of that stuff, too. So we’re seeing this big shift across the market over the last five years. And it’s not really compliance. In some cases, it’s more user experience across Facebook’s environment, Google’s environment, things like that, which kind of bleeds across the whole industry. So now when we see a quote, unquote, a very aggressive sales page, it’s actually not as aggressive as it used to see because they’re building a page compliant air quotes for Facebook. And it turns out, that’s pretty close to what we need to. So we’re seeing this overall shift of like direct response becoming more branded, branded, becoming more direct response, because any better conversions is kind of, I wouldn’t say it’s met in the middle yet. But the two sides are starting to get closer to each other, I think we’re gonna continue to see that with direct response and E comm slash brand, becoming more synergistic.
Tyler Jorgenson 3:13
I totally agree. And I see a lot of direct response brands, right, they used to just be they would launch a new product, and it would be kind of a fly by night thing, it ran its life cycle. And then when it died, it died. But now they’re realizing, hey, we’re building a customer base, we’re building a list, we’re building all of this, why wouldn’t we leverage that to whatever the next thing that’s coming for that niche is? And so we’re, but you’re right, I don’t think they’ve quite met in the middle. But I am seeing more direct response brands make it into retail. And that’s a big part of owning a brand. And I am seeing more. Absolutely what you said more brands who didn’t really understand the direct response space, starting to use more and more of those tactics and those things. So maybe for those who are listening who understand products and branding, but don’t maybe understand direct response, can you kind of define that for them? Yeah, I
Thomas McMahon 4:01
look at it a few different ways I look at it as a direct response to me is you’re wanting someone to take an action right now. So when I look at it in a term of ClickBank environment, or my environment, it’s more sales is the action we want to happen. So direct response to me is driving sales day zero or as close to zero as you can for that traffic or that audience or that potential customer hitting your sales page versus more of an E commerce environment, which might be you know, up to 14 touch points. So as you get here, throughout the industry, and multiple things like that, so the first touch of a brand, is just to get them retargeted and kind of get more experiences with your brand versus a direct response environment, which is no this is designed to bring someone who’s cold to this sales page, and now get them converting and buying today. That’s kind of the big breakdown for us.
Tyler Jorgenson 4:47
And it is a major difference between the two. And it’s interesting to me. I was talking once with a guy who had been a Vice President of Marketing for SeaWorld. Right. Okay. He, I think he was like their CMO. I mean He was high up there for a while. And we were talking about online ads. And he said, Well, he’s like, I just think it’s, it’s a waste. If I could put money into online ads, or if I could buy a Superbowl ad, I’m gonna buy a Superbowl ad. And it was like, nothing had been more clear of the difference between old school thought and new school thought, which is just, all he wanted was impressions. He’s like, I can look at the impression I can make and I’m like, but that’s, look how long it’s gonna take you to track whether that was effective. Right? And that’s, so not only is it two different schools of thought, but one has data and analytics and, and a whole strategy to get them to take action in like, on a short term instead of over a long over time, right. But I am seeing like you said that more direct response people are also building in brand style, like actual branding, but also branded touchpoints. And making sure that they are following up and nurturing and building a relationship with these with the new customer, which is cool.
Thomas McMahon 5:56
Yeah, I think you’re seeing you know, that’s getting so expensive around traffic now. And places like Facebook, which is so popular and traffic on and people are starting realize, like, wow, going for straight conversion campaign on Facebook, it’s super expensive, but if I can afford for its performance marketer slash direct response marketer, but if I can go for video view campaigns and get, you know, impressions going back to that, you know, for pennies on the dollar compared to a conversion or a click, and then we bring the warm audience put them in front of conversion, right, they’re starting to think like E commerce or traditional brand would just to drive the cost down. And same with E commerce, they get direct response best practices on their sales pages have been rolled out across our E commerce experience and conversions lift across the board. And that’s where we’re starting to see that kind of shift both ways.
Tyler Jorgenson 6:37
I am and makes ton of sense. I, I think that you you were not always a direct response, Business Development Manager, right? How did you stumble into the world of marketing light? What was that first domino that led you here?
Thomas McMahon 6:51
Well, cash of all things a creative writing major out of college of Idaho are the only reason I went to school there was the play tennis there, and then kind of fell into creative writing, because I got bored of the business classes I was taking because I didn’t know what I wanted to do. But I started I got my first job out of college with that esteemed creative writing major was doing guest blog writing for minimum wage for link building agency here in Boise. And that’s where I got started cutting my teeth into SEO and content marketing and kind of cold outreach, really just to get guest blogs across the web and kind of worked my way up at that company. So I was managing a team there and kind of realized I wanted to kind of expand out of SEO and kind of learn more of the marketing angle. And lo and behold, Clickbank is based in Boise. So
Tyler Jorgenson 7:35
that worked out Yeah, it but it’s writing and copy is probably one of the most undervalued in my opinion, parts of the marketing makeup. So many times people come to me and come to our team and say, Hey, we I want a funnel built. I’m like, Cool, do you have the copy? No, just just make it look good. And I’m like, words work. And then design supports the words. And so it’s interesting that you started as a writer, and kind of got started in that and saw, okay, there’s, there’s different parts of copies, right? There’s just general content, and then there’s sales copy, and there’s all these other things. And they all have different value to like, what it can actually drive for the business. So you’ve been at Clickbank for quite a while now. What are some big trends you’re seeing here as we wrap up this year and go into next year? What’s happening in the direct response? What kind of what kind of offers are taking off? What’s happening? Yeah, the
Unknown Speaker 8:24
biggest shift, I’ve seen the last, I’d say 18 months, obviously COVID was a big new level setter kind of really raised the bar for E commerce in general. But with that, we’ve seen an increase in pricing. That’s been pretty surprising. And that’s not just on the front end price. But more like the bundling packages that we’re seeing, right we’re seeing I think Alex Harmozi is partially you know, responsible for this. So there’s million dollar offer book and things like that, right? And how to add all this value make an offer so good, you can’t say no to Yeah, the market has gotten very good at bundling let’s say a supplement bundle and anchoring a higher price point for a single bottle and driving people to the three or six for x dollars off per bottle and people want to deal and that’s always been around that’s not new by any means. But the way I’ve seen it leveraged in the last 18 months has led to massive scale because now the average order value is increased by 100% than what it used to be and now you can pay all that to the affiliate or to Facebook to acquire the customer and that just kind of feels that customer acquisition fire that’s kind of been breeding there that’s been the biggest shift have seen there’s been all these little hacks and stuff as far as conversion optimization goes but that increased ao V on the front end for a direct to consumer product that’s not quote unquote a high ticket product but it’s bringing the AO v into that 250 plus dollar range is what’s really kind of sparked a lot of these big offers
Thomas McMahon 8:24
Yeah, now and and ClickBank avoided doing supplements for a long time but you guys have been doing that now for a few years. One of the other major changes recently has been like iOS 14 So people are drastically looking for alternative traffic sources. Now and ClickBank you don’t you don’t Consider yourself a traffic network. You’re, uh, you’re an affiliate network. But have you noticed your traffic partners really being more aggressive looking for new traffic? Like, what are you seeing happening in that space? Yeah,
a lot of people have pivoted to YouTube. This seems to slow down a little bit. I think YouTube’s been catching up to some compliance pieces there and things like that. But, uh, especially, you know, six plus months ago, a lot of people were testing YouTube and getting traffic going over there because Facebook was just getting so hard to work with on not just the cost, right, but how aggressive they are on different accounts. Obviously tick tock has there we’ve seen a lot of media buyers playing with the Tick Tock platform, their compliance is very strict, you need the right offer and kind of right, creative team to make that work. But I don’t think anyone’s surprised to hear that tiktoks been taking off for people and then also native that’s the other big one have seen people pivoting over to native to figure that out, especially with how many more people are online now thanks to COVID native is really surged up in popularity with affiliates,
Tyler Jorgenson 10:58
defined native for someone that may be new to this space. Yeah, native
Thomas McMahon 11:02
just meaning like if you’re scrolling through msnbc.com or something and seeing the ads that pop up in those environments, or kind of media channels, taking out ads and kind of drive through another warm up lander for that. I mean, we’re getting very smart with how they’re doing it all. But that’s kind of that native environment I’m talking about there. I guess technically, Facebook’s native environment. But
Tyler Jorgenson 11:23
yeah, I started advertising on Facebook and it was just like Facebook, you didn’t have business manager and ads manager and anything like that. And so and it was really easy, but I also remember when you could run a banner ad on on Google Display Network before it was even called that and it was super cheap and you got major CPMs right. And I we noticed this I think there’s a lot of people that just got started in marketing the last three or four years that really only ever learned Facebook and it always made me it was an interesting thing for me when they would call themselves a traffic expert or anything like that when I’m like you know, one platform you got to study you got to see what’s happening because what’s happening right now isn’t new, right? This happens all the time there’s a there’s a cheap traffic source that comes up everyone exploits it then they’ve got to tighten compliance they got to make changes or or Apple or somebody else makes it adjusted that impacts them. I mean, I was selling supplements my started my brand over 10 years ago and we could advertise it on Google no problem but then Google came through and said hey, you can’t advertise this product on here 95% of businesses went out of business but unlike look there’s traffic is still out there your offers got to be physician different you can’t just have a basic listing you now need to have that like you said a sales page or a warm up page or something and then it’s gonna You got to get more sophisticated more as these kinds of things change what has there been any interesting offers that you’ve seen over the past little while like was there one that was just like this is never gonna work and it just totally surprised you?
Thomas McMahon 12:48
Yeah, there’s one out there now that we do like a top offers on Clickbank every month kind of highlight. And there’s one Yeah, been there for the last like 14 months and it just sticks there. And it’s a hyper it’s called hype stretch, hyperbolic stretching with like, hyper stretch. And it’s basically teaching men or female women which lander you hit how to do the splits. And it’s,
Tyler Jorgenson 13:10
that’s such an COVID thing. Like, people like I’ve got time at home, I’m gonna learn a new skill, you know?
Thomas McMahon 13:16
Yeah, exactly. And there’s lots of uh, you know, weight loss supplements is that they’re selling really well. But this one’s just a steady Eddy performer, just consistent five figure gross revenue a day, just like kind of turns it out. And they’re just, it’s a great clean offer, you can run on multiple different traffic channels. And we’ve seen that too. I think like these niche, I mean, riches are in the niches, everyone says that, but people are able to find that kind of like little, you know, this is in the health niche. So it’s very wide, it kind of targets an older demographic, where flexibility is an issue. They kind of want to hit that but they make it a fun kind of you want to scroll through the page matter who you are, just to see these all these testimonials of people doing splits, man, I could do this right. And it’s 37 bucks. That’s an easy kinda like, sure. I’ll try it. Right. So
Tyler Jorgenson 13:58
yeah, yeah. Well, when I first got started in online marketing, and I would hear things like what you just said that you said, so casually, a $37 offer is doing a consistent five figures a day. And I just was like, that’s not possible. Right? That’s not possible for an extended period of time. There’s not that many people that would want to buy it, but there are like, I don’t think people realize just how many consumers there are in the US. Like, it’s insane. And how many dollars
Unknown Speaker 14:26
are being served internationally? It’s, it’s, it’s silly, you know, it’s there’s something that you’re not going to run out of audience, you know, that kind of volume scale. And it’s just, yeah, they and they’re there. I don’t know if they’re clever or not, I kind of but they run into they’re very controlled with the affiliates they allow it’s a gated offer is not wide open to the network. So they always have, you know, a vetted source of affiliates coming in. So what they’re doing there is instead of going big like they could probably and doing now 10s of 1000s you know of sales a day or kind of thing. They’re controlling it with a select You know, half a dozen or a dozen affiliates a month promoting it when they can fatigue will add another one in, and then just letting everyone run it at once or keeping it and they’ll probably be selling this for the next five plus years right at this kind of volume. So it’s like, it’s really cool to see. Yeah,
Tyler Jorgenson 15:14
that’s it is very cool to see what um, how much does Clickbank do like just Clickbank have like, here’s our best day ever or you know, cuz you’ve been there what six years now? I mean, you’ve seen a lot of growth and clippings been around a long time. So yeah, they were also one of the early kind of affiliate networks, what’s a banner day for you guys?
Thomas McMahon 15:34
I can get to specific company, all that kind of stuff. I can say right, like gosh was adding, like you mentioned, like we’re kind of slow to get into supplements, we’re pretty cautious and getting into new markets just because we don’t want to kind of step into compliance, hot water, we kind of make sure the process is there and kind of roll out slowly. But just for context, right? You know, we were a, let’s put it this way. In Idaho, we were a top 100 Idaho private company, this last month, we just got the award, we’re a top 15. So in the last 10 years, right, we’ve been growing pretty quickly and tremendously in the E commerce space. The what that’s meant, like adding supplements, for example, they’ll sell kind of physical goods in that regard. physical goods now probably make up 60 to 70% of overall volume. While we haven’t and that’s that’s not eating up volume from digital, digital has grown as well over a year. So you can imagine just being able to more than double your business with another vertical or another avenue of products. What that can do from daily sales volume. I’ll say this, like some of the daily sales metrics I can share or like be like a, I think the daily sales record right now for a single vendor in a single day is right around 3.2 million. And that’s that’s not common, right. That’s a banner day for that quarter. A unicorn but it’s still it’s awesome to hear. Yeah. And that’s doing like that was like a closed launch, right a 10 day launch with a high ticket product. Kind of hitting that launch period window big. We’re starting to see now some supplements sales, though, like in that kind of supplement niche, right. We’ve seen Gosh, a few banner days for different offers doing gross, you know, million dollar days. $800,000 days has become kind of like that. Well, at a really good day, kind of thing coming out of nowhere.
Tyler Jorgenson 17:14
It’s no longer like it’s not unheard of anymore. Yeah, like a million dollar day. And he’s like, Hey, Stop the presses, we got to call. Like, it’s like, Oh, that’s amazing. But
Thomas McMahon 17:24
yeah, big launch, right, that’s going well, and things like a little so. Yeah, I think the baseline from when I started six years ago has just not doubled. It’s close to it as far as like what a good day is an average. And the other funny part too, we’re seeing is that q3 q4 would always be like kind of the quiet part in direct response. But right now we’ve got we’re having record sales days for supplements in November, December. And it’s like, okay, this is cool. Like, that’s so the markets shifted a bit probably thanks to COVID and things like that. But sure, you know, we’re seeing this like stable sales period where q1 is always bigger, but it’s not like this fall off throughout the year that we’re used to seeing things we’ve just kind of stayed and even gotten better as the year goes on. That’s
Tyler Jorgenson 18:03
really any that’s an interesting trend to to kind of explore a little bit more. So as you’ve been growing in, you know, I was talking with you before the show that a little bit as a intrapreneur. Right, you as a business development manager, you have to see what’s working and come up with ideas help onboard these offers, how have you grown as you know, as a marketer and as a as an entrepreneur over the past few years?
Thomas McMahon 18:27
Yeah, I’ve been very humbled to be where I am I get that question a lot when I’m traveling for Clickbank because I’m going to these masterminds full of successful entrepreneurs and stuff and the question pops up. I haven’t done your own thing yet. Because that’s kind of been the career track for Clickbank salespeople, they’ve kind of figured it out and go do their own thing. Right. And part of it is, you know, being a salesperson means I make commission and my commission is only limited to the amount of business I can bring on. So the more business I bring to ClickBank, more get paid. In the last few years, I’m able to bring a lot of business to Clickbank. So it’s been, you know, good career growth for me in that regard. And then to like you mentioned, I get to see behind the scenes, not just on the copy and like the hook angles and things like that. But really, what’s more telling that I don’t think a lot of people understand is the back end operations of a business. Oh, yeah. And how important that is, people think that this offer fatigued because the hook was tired or something the marketing goal is exhausted. And like you just mentioned, there’s so many customers out there, that’s rarely the case. Usually it’s the backend stress and the operations can’t grow. I’m just gonna realize that I’ve gotten very good at what I do right now and I’m still learning a lot and I can make a very good income for myself and my family by being a good salesperson for Clickbank it’s very mutually aligned and I get to learn a ton. And I have to add on that stress of being a full on entrepreneur and have it on my shoulders right now. Totally and still. Right kind of operatives that intrapreneurs we’re talking about. And that’s I’ve seen people
Tyler Jorgenson 19:52
leave positions like what you’re talking about, and they’ll oftentimes do okay for a little while but what they do because what you just said they don’t have the experience of being the business owner, they might have had a good offer, but they didn’t have the rest of their systems in place. They didn’t understand, Oh, I’ve got to have fulfillment, I need to have customer service, I need to have all of these other things, they got really good at one piece. And so my Okay, you’ve either got to go now add a massive skill of managing all of that, or you can just continue to thrive and doing what you’re doing. You know, it’s not, I don’t see it as a negative, right, I think what you’re doing is really neat, because if you do your job, well, not only do you make money, but you help all these other brands succeed, and, and help. And I think that’s huge. Because having been an offer owner and brand owner, if you don’t have a good team of people like that you can have the best offer in the world. And that old idea that if you build a better mousetrap, the whole world will be down at their door to fight is absolutely false, they won’t know it exists. So if you can’t get it out in front of people, and position it right, it’s dead. And so I think it’s really cool what you do, as you’ve been, you know, continuing to grow within the company and grow your own experience in your own skills, how does that help you be able to better onboard and help somebody be successful with you guys?
Thomas McMahon 21:03
Totally. But my confidence level right now of taking a business that’s anywhere from thinking about starting to multiple, eight figures and seeing levers for them to pull to grow, has just grown tremendously, right? Like, I know, I can hop on a call with almost anybody and that kind of demographic, like okay, here’s what you say you want to do, here’s where you’re at now, here’s the blockers you’re hitting, here’s where you need, here’s either who you know, you need to go talk to here’s what you need to hire for, here’s the systems you need a place to grow, and just help them knock it out. And it’s like, well, not so much to help them knock it out before in the right direction for them to go do it. Because that’s what I’m kind of looking at when I’m looking at new offers to come on board it’s really peeling back the data and like how it’s performing but also what people do they have in place for growth where are they going to hit because that’s going to impact the frontline sales growth to like we’re just talking about so that’s kind of where I’ve kind of had a lot of fun it’s not so much like I realize like owning an offer it doesn’t mean I’m more successful I can just I can help look behind the scenes at a business almost consult with them on a strategic level and that’s super fulfilling for me when someone takes out there and you see the business grow it’s like yeah that’s more fun to me and then seeing the daily sales number for an offer that I might theory on right so yep
Tyler Jorgenson 22:14
I think a lot of people think that when they get listed on Clickbank oh it’s it I’m off to the races right I got it I went it’s not super easy it’s probably better now but like I you know listing your offer takes a few steps it’s not just like throwing up an eBay listing and so you got to go through all the steps you got to get it ready but then then the work starts right so what does a successful clickbank affiliate do to go from just getting the product like their offer listed to actually making it when?
Thomas McMahon 22:42
I’m glad you said that cuz I always say like, you’ve done the hard work of building your offer your product, now you’re doing the harder work of selling it, right? Yes, that’s a great way to say it. Yeah. And it’s so true. It’s like the, if you put it up, they don’t necessarily come and that’s sometimes it happens and it works out. But the ones that do it right. I think what people what I try to preach is that working with affiliates is b2b sales. And if you don’t have a good b2b sales structure of actually kind of working with people building rapport, understanding, it’s a long sales cycle, all this kind of stuff, you’re going to run to a lot of frustration and kind of get your teeth kicked in a little bit when you’re trying to onboard and work with affiliates. Because it’s understanding that these performance affiliates that kind of live in like the ClickBank style ecosystem, they are running a business, they need ROI on their time. And if people get frustrated, because they go, Oh, I’ve got this new offer. I just need affiliates to test. If you’re asking affiliates to test and unproven offer, they’re taking a big risk, even if it might be quote unquote, free traffic on an email list they have, it’s not really free offer. It’s opportunity cost, exactly opportunity cost. If they promote your offer, and it doesn’t convert when it could promote it offer a they’ve just lost that difference. So it’s kind of understanding that environment and then being able to like, okay, either I need to go test or understand I need to kind of pay to play to get data. And then that gets a lot easier to actually work with affiliates. So I’d say step A is make sure it’s an actual tested, converting offer and not just this thing you’ve built and you hope it converts. So don’t
Tyler Jorgenson 24:08
use the ClickBank affiliates as your testing. Use that to scale.
Thomas McMahon 24:12
Yeah, exactly what the metaphor he’s a lot is like we can help pour a lot of gasoline on a fire. But if the spark isn’t there, you just got a lot of damp sticks, right? That’s smell bad. So
Tyler Jorgenson 24:22
it’s all solid analogy.
Thomas McMahon 24:24
Yeah, you need something moving there for things to happen and kind of take off.
Tyler Jorgenson 24:28
We say the same thing in our agency. We’re like, look, we’re really good at amplifying what works. Yeah. But you can’t amplify something that hasn’t been tested. So that’s okay. Like if we need to start with testing. Let’s just recognize that’s where we’re at. Right? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 24:41
And that’s where you see like those ECOM brands like oh, we got this great product and it’s like they’ve got this product image page kind of thing. It’s like for that to work with the performance affiliate. You’re asking that affiliate to go make basically all your marketing assets at that point No, from sales page to bridge page to swipes to whatever you might need. And that’s most affiliates aren’t going to do that. They’re gonna look at what’s easy to promote and slot in and test quickly and ask them to do all this legwork is not faster, easier lucrative. It’s like looking at what’s what I think Joe Polish does this a lot. What’s elf easy, lucrative and fun? Yeah, like it had an acronym of hard, annoying, lame and frustrating. So if you’re not making it L for affiliates you’re gonna be Yeah, that’s gonna be a lot of a tough road to hoe.
Tyler Jorgenson 25:21
I always forgot the other hat like I have. I always remember elf and Alside. Like, Joe keep things really simple in his house. He like teaches I like it. So you’ve done some cool things. You had some bucket list items, share those, and then tell us what you got coming up this next year.
Thomas McMahon 25:35
Oh, thanks. Ya know, I’ve been putting myself out there more on camera. Like if you kind of go look at clickbait and stuff, we’ll see me on the YouTube channel and affiliated podcast we host and things like that. So that’s been cool to kind of just break out of my comfort zone and kind of do more on screen quote unquote, time, which has led to some more live speaking engagements, I’ve got to speak at Affiliate Summit East on stage, which led me to speaking at traffic and conversion, I remember being a TNC, you know, three or four years ago, looking at the speaker lineup going, it wasn’t so much a goal for me to speak there. But it was like one of those goals is like, Man, I want to have the authority in a space where I could speak at this kind of thing and have that right, right. And then I got to speak there at no gotta have two slots that they’re remote, and then another one of their side stages there and things like that. So that was a big piece for me. And then just, you know, internally, it’s like my guys surpassed some big milestones as far as sales goals and kind of multipliers there and things like that. So we’re just kind of trying to build on that. What I’m really stoked for is what you’re gonna see from the ClickBank marketing side, like I mentioned, our affiliated podcast, you’re gonna see a lot more from that piece of things that guests we bring on and kind of how we distribute that and let’s just a lot more content catering to the intermediate to advanced marketer from Clickbank which I’m really excited that you are in school.
Tyler Jorgenson 26:50
Yeah, I’ve noticed you guys have massively been increasing your amount of output in from a content perspective where seemed like used to just kind of stay behind the scenes and let the let the performance of the affiliates kind of bring in other people but and I mean, you’d be at events and stuff, but it’s cool to see you guys creating content and putting more out there. And it’s cool to see you being more out there. I think that’s really neat. You know, I’ve seen it I’ve noticed, you know, which is cool. One thing I always ask people is that business and all of this right? It’s great that you achieve these sales goals, but it’s about building a life that you actually love what’s the major item on your personal bucket list you’re gonna accomplish in the next 12 months.
Thomas McMahon 27:28
So I’ve Golf has become a big passion of mine in the last three years or so I hit some big personal checklist items this last year I hit both my goals which is the break 90 And then to get a handicap like a bogey handicap 18 handicap right? The funny part is I did break 90 I shot a 78 which if you’re a golfer you probably won’t believe me since I was like a 23 handicap and I just had a career round but I still have been shot in the 80s so I want to get to a consistent place where I’m shooting in the 80s You know, like a 15 handicap kind of place. And then for me really it’s I’ve always struggled to turn off work right and kind of be at home with our toddler with my wife and things like that. So big thing focus for me going to 2022 is figuring out how I can you know put the phone down even lock it away if I need to get back to exercise so that’s something career has gone very well the last few years in life, family life and personal life is going great too. It’s just how can I make sure that I’m not losing focus away from that?
Tyler Jorgenson 28:27
Yeah, yeah keep that work life mix healthy as as life continues to evolve and work continues to evolve. That makes a lot of sense. I love it. And yeah, it I would have just retired from golf after a 78 but the scorecard in a frame would have been right behind me on your little shelf there. Done is that it? Is that actually the scorecard right there that I could see.
Thomas McMahon 28:50
Oh, this is a little box and I was able to play Torrey Pines Golf there. I don’t know. Keep that no, that was Yeah, so I’m trying to make sure that doesn’t seem like a fluke. So when I go play League this next summer my handicap isn’t hurting too much. So I live up to it a little bit. Yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson 29:07
Awesome. Thomas has been awesome. chatting with you a little bit having you on the show people can find you. I know they can find you on LinkedIn and they can probably find you a few other places where can people learn more about Thomas McMahon?
Unknown Speaker 29:18
Yeah, I’ve got a personal site Thomas J McMahon calm you’ll find me on Instagram and Tiktok on Facebook with the happy scaling nomenclature so at Happy scalings where you’ll find me on I’m sure all three of those channels they’re cool and yeah, I would recommend if you like this type of content you put up Tyler, the affiliated podcast that Clickbank is hosting. I’m pretty proud of what we will put out there and the editing team there’s really solid so
Tyler Jorgenson 29:41
yeah, so we’ll grab all of those links and throw them here in the for anyone if you’re watching. If you’re listening to the show on on radio, you won’t be able to grab those you just have to write it down. But if you’re on bizninjaradio.com And you can you can get all the links there from Thomas’s episode, so appreciate you coming out. It’s been an absolute blast to all my business Wherever you are listening, watching streaming whatever it may be, it’s your turn to go out and do something.
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