Christopher Vos 0:00
RSR method is a rifle approach. That is your building relationship just like you are with 100. But you’re doing it on a level that is personal. You’re getting into the good weeds, you’re making a connection with someone, you know, relationship building is all about turning heads and getting noticed. I mean, how do you stand out from all the other people that are also trying to reach out to the same people that you’re trying to reach out to? How do you rise above that? How do you get them to go? Holy cow? How did they know that I love x. You’re listening
Tyler Jorgenson 0:31
to biz ninja entrepreneur radio. This show was created for entrepreneurs, business owners, marketers and dreamers who want to learn from the experts of today and drastically shortcut their own success to build a business that supports their dream lifestyle. Since 2011, Tyler Jorgenson has been interviewing business thought leaders from around the world a serial entrepreneur himself, Tyler also shares his personal insights into what’s working in business today. Welcome to biz Ninja, entrepreneur radio. Welcome out to biz ninja entrepreneur, radio, I am your host, Tyler Jorgensen. And today I get to have a friend of mine on the show. And that’s always fun, because it’s a little bit more natural conversation. Sometimes talking to strangers is scary. But today we get to have Christopher Voss, the father of nine, the entrepreneurs magician, and the founder of R o r University. Welcome to the show, Chris.
Unknown Speaker 1:35
Hey, Tyler. Great to be here. Thanks for having me on.
Tyler Jorgenson 1:37
I am excited because one of the funny things about when you get to know someone is you don’t hear their journey linearly, right? You just learn bits about them. Like you just learned some new stuff about me about my, you know, challenges I had in business years ago. And, and so as we learn and uncover, it’s like, wow, we get to relearn who they are as we go. So today, we’re going to share a little bit of your journey. Let’s start with my favorite question. When did you first realize that you are an entrepreneur?
Unknown Speaker 2:05
That was eight years old? Okay. Ah,
Tyler Jorgenson 2:08
Unknown Speaker 2:09
So I got I got an A magic. You know, magic attracts little kids and I got my first magic kit. And, you know, loved it is all kids love magic. And my mom’s hairdresser said, hey, can your son do a magic show for my son’s birthday party? And my mom asked me, I’m like, Yeah, she gave me I think it was like 20 bucks. And to me back then, at that age, 20 bucks is like, I was gonna go buy a jet. I was like, I was, I was, it was huge. It was like, tons of money. And I’m like, Oh, my word. I just made money. I went and practice magic. And they paid me. So I’m like, I can make a business out of this. And I did. I mean, this is not it.
Tyler Jorgenson 2:47
Yeah, I saw 20 bucks is a lot for a magic show. Especially you know, 75 years ago, when you were when you were eight years old. It was a ages. No, but that’s awesome. I love that. Yeah, I know. You’re not that old at all.
Unknown Speaker 3:00
I have nine kids. But I’m not that old. I started. Yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson 3:03
That’s right. So business is full of challenges, right? What was the first major business challenge that you faced? And how did you overcome it?
Unknown Speaker 3:11
First business challenge. I did the entrepreneurial thing I borrowed money from my parents started a business. I had five kids at the time, the economy was 2004. Right when the economy and our own state started to go down and people like you starting your own business when the economy’s going down. Like Yep, five got worse, six got worse seven 2008 August 2008, when the national recession hit the whole country. And so I borrowed if my parents started advertising agency, I read, Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki. And now, he wrote a book called before you quit your job, I think is the title that he wrote that long after he wrote Rich Dad, Poor Dad. Yes. I wish he would have written that one first. Yeah. But that’s okay. Robert, your book inspired me. So I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad. And then a friend of mine was reading Napoleon Hill Think and Grow Rich. So we exchange books. So those are the first two books that drastically impacted my life. Borrow way less money than when I shut up for my parents to survive. And started my advertising agency out of the bedroom, extra bedroom in our house, and soup to nuts. We did Radio TV, direct mail, newspaper, newspaper was used back then. And yeah, so that was a failure on that. So did well and got up to about seven or eight employees. Everything was going fantastic. And then when the national recession yet advertisers, the first thing they get rid of is not their employees, they get rid of their advertising. Gone. So if you got someone spending a million dollars, you make 15% Commission on that Media Buy. So if you have 10 clients go from a million to 100,000. multiply that out. You’re talking major negative cash flow, no way to replace it. And as entrepreneurs, you throw every bit of equity that you have on the planet you sell upon whatever anything you can to save Your business. And one thing that Robert said one of his books is you have to have an exit strategy. Yeah, I read that yet. Um, I should strategy?
Tyler Jorgenson 5:09
Well, you need to have several. Right. So there’s the exit strategy if it goes well, and then several exit strategies for if it doesn’t. So for me and when I went through the Great Recession, one of the biggest mistakes that I made that I look back on and I tell other people is like, sometimes you have to pull the ripcord sooner. Like, if you wait until you’ve leveraged every single piece, then not only are you left with a failed business, you’re also left without any other leverage. And so, but I made the same mistake, really. And so you learn from it right? And you adapt, what was the first thing you did when you kind of started to rebuild?
Unknown Speaker 5:43
So I went back into the workforce, you know, I went back working for the man and got a job as a guy for a business grew his business, from you know, three to $10,000,007 increase, which is great. But you know, I learned Sunday for some, he’s like, Man, you’re building someone else’s dreams, you’re not building yours, right? You’re making that guy filthy rich. He’s making lots of money. He’s got nine cars and gazillion houses. And you’re doing a really good job at the marketing, but you’re not
Tyler Jorgenson 6:08
going to join. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 6:10
So I’m like, I need to pivot.
Tyler Jorgenson 6:13
So I did, absolutely. So you did. And so I think when I met you, you were you were not yet focusing on the return on relationship method. And you weren’t quite doing that yet. You were still figuring out what the next big thing was going to be for you. And so you probably went through several iterations, but currently with your throwing stones at the ROI and saying it’s time to focus on return on relationships, why don’t explain what ROI is and why it’s the better way.
Unknown Speaker 6:42
So building relationships is a vehicle to an end. And a lot of things that people don’t like to talk about is, it’s okay to have an agenda, it’s okay to have a goal that, Oh, I’d really like to work with that person. Because if I could work with that person, it would drastically change my business. But in order to be able to do that, first you need to build a relationship with the person. It’s just like dating when I was dating my wife, I was getting her flowers and coming up all these creative dates that blew her mind, the world. You know, she didn’t think well, you know, he’s only doing this because he wants to potentially marry me. She was impressed by everything I did for her. And we ended up getting married my kids later. So it’s the same thing in the business world. No Deal.
Tyler Jorgenson 7:25
But But I think that she did, like she knew your intention, your intention was to see if there was a match. And I think that that’s okay. Right. It’s okay to understand. relationships have a mutual benefit, when it’s unhealthy is when it is a one direction benefit. Right? And no one wants, that’s not a good relationship to build, but focusing on mutually beneficial relationships. That’s totally okay. In business and personal life, wherever, right? What is what is Dale Carnegie say?
Unknown Speaker 7:52
So Dale Carnegie says you can now he says friends because it’s all about, you know, built win friends and influence people. But I changed the word friends. But his quote is, you can gain more friends in two months, expressing an interest in others than spending two years trying to get people interested in you. That’s super profound. You can get more relationships, more business deals, more joint ventures more whatever, if you take interest in others, instead of trying to get them interested in what you’re doing. Yeah, and the other thing, you know, our logo has the two arrows that circulate around and great thing about return on relationship is it’s infinite. You know, as long as like you said, there’s a return on relationship. It never ends, it’s a circle and keeps going round and round and round in the circle can just get bigger as all the different opportunities long for you and the person that you’re building relationships, there’s an exchange back and forth.
Tyler Jorgenson 8:41
Yeah, I think what’s fascinating about like, networking, in general, is there is a premise of how do I find more people that can help me right, but any good networker starts with how can I serve that person? Who can I connect them to the good networkers? Maybe they just knew it intrinsically. Or maybe they it was an instinct play, but they know that givers gain right like you, I’m gonna start by sowing my seeds, like into the marketplace. And then when I need to harvest I can. And so what you’re doing is finding a more very deliberate way to like harvest faster, right?
Unknown Speaker 9:16
Yeah, they say dig your well before you’re thirsty. And right now with everyone’s going through with the economy, you know, things are going on in the world that have never gone on before. It’s a crazy time and people are thirsty. And so the great thing is, you know, I’ve dug my wells, I have wells all over the place, they’re springing forth water, you know, I’m planting and watering and dig your well before you’re thirsty. It’s, you know, begin with the end in mind. Stephen Covey says, you know, it’s so important. I got through 2020 because of the relationship that I have. I’m alive here today doing this interview with you. And I don’t know if you want me to tell that story. But I’m so long story short, I watched a webinar of a gentleman by the name of Russell Brunson about three and a half years ago. Yep, very good man. And if you drew a stick figure on the board, if him on the left, and on the right, you drew a picture of a guy by the name of Wallace Nelson, and you drew a bunch of people in between them, I never would have met Wallace, if I didn’t start following and building relationship with Russell, and then build a relationship with the next guy, and the next guy, the next guy, all the way down. So what Wallace Nelson did for me is I didn’t do on my entrepreneurial journey, when I talked about growing my business and losing that I didn’t take care of myself, I put everyone’s oxygen mask on first, I walked around the plane made sure that everyone sitting on the plane had their mask on nice and tight. I didn’t take care of myself, I was overweight, unhealthy, and all that damage to my body. When I met Wallace, he got me on a health wellness program, he launched the beta group, and put me in remember, yeah, I lost a ton of weight, I got healthy. And July of last year, though, there’s a good thing. So I had a major stroke. And if the doctor sat on the edge of my bed, and he said, You know, I just want to tell you, I know where you were before. And they were know where you are. Now, if you would not have lost all that weight, if you would not have changed your life around your wife would be a widow and your kids would be fatherless. Now, if that’s not a return on relationship, you know, there’s a return relationship. Well, listen, I, there was a return on relationship between me and Russell and all the people he introduced me to, because I started following him and showing gratitude to him. And I’m alive today. Because of that my wife had tumors diagnosed in the summer, right when the pandemic hit, we found out that she had brain tumors. With everything going on with hospitals, we couldn’t get in to see a surgeon on a zoom call for three months. So our relationship reached out and reached out to someone else. And we got in with the best neurosurgeon in the state that we live in, and saw him the next day after the phone call, and then left his office with an appointment to have surgery on my wife Two weeks later, so we had the surgery. And it was going to be another two months before we even had a zoom call with the other surgeon. And that was a return on relationship. My wife had 65% of her skull removed from and I can talk about this without crying or both of those stories take me over to do that. But that was a returning relationship. So the reason why I’m so passionate about this, I want to teach people, this is the thing that they need to be focusing on. This is what they need to be working on networking, building relationships, stop focusing on some of the other things you are and start focusing right now. Now’s the time to do it. So I’m alive
Tyler Jorgenson 12:36
always is like, really amazing stories. I think there’s so many more like sub stories within that. And yet, like life saving stories is a pretty good place to start. Yeah, when I met you, you were a bigger man than you are now. Right and, and just as good of a human but you know, you’ve gotten yourself in much better shape and taking care of yourself. What like when we look at ROI return on relationships, that as a methodology as a methodology, right? I think we can go back to Chet Holmes ultimate sales machine, the concept of dream 100. How do you apply that into even into your methodology of like, being even more focused, not just going after? Because, you know, there’s dream 100 or dream, 1000 or dream, whatever, but then they’re saying, you know, I’m gonna go focus on these 123 relationships, and really focus on those, where’s the bridge? And what does it become the ROI method,
Unknown Speaker 13:26
you know, this is kind of a cliche term, you’ve got the rifle approach, you got the shotgun approach, through 100 is a really, it’s a shotgun approach, you know, a big blast to a big wide berth to a whole bunch of people. And the ROI method is a rifle approach. That is, you’re building relationship, just like you are with 100. But you’re doing it on a level that is personal, you’re getting into the good weeds, you’re making a connection with someone, you know, relationship building is all about turning heads and getting noticed. I mean, how do you stand out from all the other people that are also trying to reach out to the same people that you’re trying to reach out to? How do you rise above that? How do you get them to go, holy cow, how did they know that I love x. I don’t know how in the world, they know that this is. So you you want to connect so rrr connects on an emotional level are the brain that is not just a you know, thanks for sending me x, and then they throw it away. It’s something that you send to them that they place on their desk, and they keep there for years. And every single time they look at it. They think of you, you know you want to make ROI or connects on an emotional level. That is an anchor point that will never leave that person. It’s not just a quick little thing. It’s a major major dream 100 will explode your business ROI or we’ll take it nucular and that’s all I can say. I like that I
Tyler Jorgenson 14:51
love that that dream 100 will explode your business but taking a nuclear and or like for some people it’s like man, I maybe I’m not ready for massive have massive growth but I need that one next person to connect with so that I can be more strategic and more, you know, Sis, like systematic in my next steps, right? You know, it was really interesting return on relationship and that concept of being very intentional in connecting and networking and not, again, I think there’s a massive difference between selfish and self centered. I actually believe that selfishness is a virtue and self centeredness will destroy everybody. Because when you do what’s best for yourself, you you will by nature, not self sabotage, you’ll do what’s best, and therefore do what’s best for others. So putting your mask on first is selfish. It’s taking care of yourself, but therefore you can take care of others. It’s a long thing to explain. But using kind of tying back to one of your early stories, the ROI method and this concept helped me like Robert Kiyosaki Rich Dad Poor Dad was one of the very first books that helped me realize the way I saw the world was not abnormal. It was okay. There are other people that think like I do, right. Rich Dad, Poor Dad doesn’t give you a lot of practical applications his other books do, but it is a it is a mindset shift of how to go through life and building pipelines instead of just being an employee your whole life. I recently completed building Robert Kiyosaki the Rich Dad Poor Dad, Shopify ecommerce store. And to say that like this guy that was legendary in my life became a client of mine was such a really cool full circle. that only happened because of relationships. So that was one story I want to share. The other one is for those that are watching, not not tuning in via audio, I’m sharing I’m showing a massive, gigantic Nerf gun that Christopher saw, I got a new office we were in I was at the office one night playing nerf with my kids and I shared on my Instagram stories. And like a few days later, I got started getting these packages and they didn’t all come together it came in like three shipments. And I’d seriously just been finished saying man, we need some more ammo because like we have all these cool guns, but you know, you run out of the nerf bullets. And 100 packs showed up. And I’m like, I was crazy. These is uh, you know, smart devices are starting to listen to everything. And then and then a gun showed up. And then there’s that big blaster showed up. And it was they were all from Christopher saying, Hey, Dad needs a little extra firepower, like, congratulations on your office. And like Christopher and I were already friends. But like it just it strengthened the relationship kept us connected in such a cool way to do it. So first of all, thank you for that. And second of all, like it absolutely works like I’ve had, I’ve seen the results of maintaining strong relationships. And I’ve seen it work like so I’ve seen it work in my business. But I’ve also seen people applying what you’re teaching them. I’ve seen you doing it. It’s really, really cool.
Unknown Speaker 17:40
Well, my grandpa, I learned it I was telling my grandpa was 102 years old about you know, so when I was starting my business and tell him about what I was doing what I was teaching, you know, he’s 102 years old. I was healthy as an ox up until the day he died. You know, this is the guy that stormed the beaches in the South Pacific. You know, he said, I said, Hey, Grandpa, you know, his name was pi said D day was really bad. We talked about all the carnage and all the death on D day. He looked at me and only someone that went through this could say this. He said I went through 20 D days. What do you mean by that? He’s like, I rushed 20 beaches, where they were shooting at us. And we had absolutely no chance to make it to shore. You know, as he went through the South Pacific in the Philippines. He says, I can’t tell you, you know, not, you know, the number of beaches that he rushed. So this is a guy that has perspective, very well rounded. And he looked at me and he said Mutt was my nickname. Because my brother’s name was Jeff, he knows that. This is the way I grew my businesses. This is the way I did business. And so with our or method, this is the old new way, or this is the new old way of doing business relationships he built. You know, he had a TV shop, he had restaurants and he said, Man, the way I got the best meat in my restaurant is over relationship for the guy that I had not because I have money, because I had a relationship. So he looked at me said you keep teaching this. And in my office, I have things from him when he died, no telephone, an old picture of Lauren Hardy. And I have these up in my office to remind me that this is the way that you do business. This is the way that you grow. And I also have this water fountain not because I want to relax, you know I need to be other nine. That water fountain reminds me of a continual flow of that circle of that return on relationship. And so my grandpa, you know, it was awesome to see him look at me and say Awesome job. And then the other thing I was caught distance was a kid my mom used to drop off cookies pancakes, fruitcakes to the bank tellers. I was a little kid and the bank manager because if you wanted a loan in the olden days, you didn’t go on your phone and fill out, you know, the phone app or anything. You went to the bank that you sat with the guy behind the big desk, and you said would you please loan me some money? That was the old way did business and so my mom would ROI Everybody in the bank, so she had a $10,000 check that she needed to cash back in the olden days, we had to wait because they have computers to run it through and check it. They would cash it for because they trusted her because she had a relationship with them showed them gratitude. They went to the bank manager, Hey, can we authorize this $10,000 check. Absolutely missing boss will do anything? Yeah, so I was taught this since I was a kid. And that’s kind of where this all came from. And
Tyler Jorgenson 20:27
I love that. I think that’s fascinating how many times the things that to us are normal, because you were taught it as a kid, and it’s what you grew up doing. But that’s your superpower. Right? So I just think that’s interesting. Like, that’s something your mom taught you, your grandpa taught you, like, all these people have taught you. And so to you, it’s normal that a lot of people struggle with that. And I think it’s gotten worse in the digital era. Because of everyone’s connected and disconnected right, you’re connected through digital means but you’re more disconnected. Because even if you look at, you know, we joking around like Facebook and MySpace, like they killed High School reunions, because people will see each other and like, I already know what’s going on in your life. But they’re not connected, the relationships not strong, but the small talks gone. Right. So like ROI helps you get past the small talk into really strengthening and creating relationships, right.
Unknown Speaker 21:18
And gratefully, we’ve met, we’ve hugged, we’ve spent time together, we’ve talked, you talked with my wife, and I’m grateful for that. But you know, I have some people in my life right now that I consider best friends, extremely good friends, I’ve never hugged them, I’ve never set foot in a room with them I’ve never been face to face. So that’s why are are so important. Because you can build lasting relationships that are anchored in really true friendships. And you don’t have to set foot in a room. And that’s something that people are gonna have to rely upon right now, with everything going on in the world, we’re not gonna be able to press flesh and hug and get close. Some ways we can some we can. I mean, it depends on where you’re at. But we clearly know something going on the world is crazy. And so with not being able to make that physical connection, you can make connections with people and establish really great business relationships, and friendships. And you can be behind your webcam,
Tyler Jorgenson 22:10
or your Yeah, it’s amazing. Give me one big example outside of yours outside of mine, like how are you doing this for clients? And let’s get one of those. And then for after that, let’s talk about, you know, what people can do with Ottawa University on doing it themselves.
Unknown Speaker 22:26
Absolutely. So success, several clients. So here’s the thing, and I can prove this, if I ever had to, we have 100% success rate, anybody that we’ve either helped reach out to someone to get a return and to get a recognition back or anybody that I’ve done it with, it’s always worked. And the reason it’s worked is because you do it the right way. I was being interviewed by someone and he said, Hey, you know, how do you know when to ask for help? Or how do you know when to ask, Hey, would you consider this joint venture when? How do you know when to talk to somebody and I said, you don’t have to ask, it naturally happens. and nine times out of 10, somebody will come to you and say, Hey, I was thinking of this morning have this really great idea. And I was thinking of you. We hop on a zoom and talk about it. I mean, what would that mean to your business? If people reached out, if people leaned into you, Myron golden says, gets better when people lean into you, then push out and we all push out because people aggressively try and go after you and you’re like, you don’t even know my main You don’t even know the name of my kids on the road. Can you ask me how my day is? Over no idea about me. So success. We have a client that we so we have a service done for you. Like you said, so yep. Number one, we teach people how to do this. So they can do it themselves. But if you’re on a level where you have more, you don’t have a lot of time you have the financial resources to pay someone to do it. It’s the equivalent of, you know, when I want to get flowers for my wife, and I’ll go pick them for myself and put them in, okay, I go to a professional florist and have them put it together and make it glossy. So we put it together, make it look awesome. And we have a client right now we’re reaching out to an extremely high profile, very high up the ladder as far as popularity and celebrity status. And we’ve reached them. And we consider that a gigantic success or client considers its success because those people have reached out to them and said, thank you so much for what you sent. It really meant a lot. Boom. doors open. And if I could say one analogy, the movie hitch. You got Alex Hitchens and you’ve got the Albert Brennaman live the world that has the electricals that they want to meet and what we do, where the Alex Hitchens will give someone an opportunity will open the door and give the geeky account out Albert Reynolds of the world and opportunity and FaceTime with their electricals of the business world if you haven’t seen hitch, great movie, and it teaches a lot about business and relationships but I’m the Will Smith Alex Hitchens will help you get connected and open that door for you. After we open the door, you need to take it from there, we’ll help you nurture it. But then it’s up to you. Yeah, in
Tyler Jorgenson 25:10
the end relationships don’t guarantee like business or results. But if you can’t, you’re not going to get the results without the relationship, right? Like it’s not gonna happen. So people can learn more by going to art or university.com. That’s where they can learn how to do it themselves learn all the secrets of the you know that Christopher and the RMR team they teach, I highly recommend you guys go and check that out. Now, you were telling me about this before, but let’s bring this back around. To me business is about creating the lifestyle that you want. It doesn’t matter if you have the perfect business, and a miserable life and don’t get to do anything with it. What is one item on your personal bucket list you’re going to do or accomplish in the next 12 months,
Unknown Speaker 25:51
next 12 months, I have a piece of property that I have selected. Look into and we have a nine kids, you got to think about traveling for us with nine children is a little bit crazy. So you know, john, or gaffigan, the comedian gaffigan says, you know, having my fifth kid, or I can’t remember how many kids it was more than two. He says it’s like, you know, swimming with two kids. And then someone it’s like treading water with two children, and then someone throws you a baby. So we’ve found this lifestyle of RV, and we drove out west with one we took another so I have the dream RV that we’re going to get. It’s amazing. And the thing why it’s amazing is when we get to the property, we’ll pull up, we’ll hook up. We’ll get tense out from underneath the storage and set those up for the kids asleep and yeah, we’ll stay in the nice RV. So the next 12 months and I’d be glad to invite you there you’re welcome to come it’s
Tyler Jorgenson 26:47
there. I have to remind you I like Michigan
Unknown Speaker 26:49
so next 12 months we’re going to acquire that and have a place for our family be able to go and spend time together because I’m a big family man obviously I get
Tyler Jorgenson 26:58
yeah I love that. Please everyone please go check out what Christopher is doing at r o r University calm and wherever you are listening it is your turn to go out and do something. Thank you for tuning in to biz ninja entrepreneur radio. What you didn’t hear was one more very important question that Tyler asks each guest if you want to be a fly on the wall when the real secrets are shared. Go to biz ninja.com slash VIP and get your access today. Remember to subscribe so that you don’t miss any future episodes. And our one last favor. If this episode was meaningful to you, please share this podcast with a fellow entrepreneur so they can grow along with us is ninjas. It’s your turn to go out and do something