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You’re listening to biz ninja entrepreneur radio. This show was created for entrepreneurs, business owners, marketers, and dreamers who want to learn from the experts of today and drastically shortcut their own success to build a business that supports their dream lifestyle. Since 2011, Tyler Jorgensen has been interviewing business thought leaders from around the world a serial entrepreneur himself. Tyler also shares his personal insights into what’s working in business today. Welcome to biz Ninja, entrepreneur radio.
Tyler Jorgenson 0:39
Welcome out to biz ninja entrepreneur radio, I am your host Tyler Jorgenson coming to you from not so sunny Southern California today but beaming in bright and excited is the infamous the wonderful they charismatic Amanda Holmes, welcome out to the show.
Amanda Holmes 0:56
Oh, thank you so much. I can’t wait to dive in.
Tyler Jorgenson 0:59
So I met Amanda recently at Funnel Hacking Live and was really impressed with really, overall your energy. But your reputation preceded you because obviously, I know of the ultimate sales machine, the amazing, impactful book written by your father Chet Holmes, and so you are now the pilot of that ship as the CEO of Chet Holmes International. One of the first questions I usually ask is about entrepreneurship. Do you consider yourself an entrepreneur? Yes, so much, so much thought into that answer. more of like a business person than an entrepreneur or
Amanda Holmes 1:36
I guess I thought business owners and entrepreneurs were synonymous? Because I really had to reimagine what the new edition of my father’s business would be and what my version of it would be.
Tyler Jorgenson 1:51
Yeah, I think that there are entrepreneurial, like entrepreneurs who are founders and creators. And then there are other entrepreneurs who can take a business and take it to the next level, both of which are in my, in my opinion, an entrepreneur, I think, for me, an entrepreneur is not a business owner, who is just operating a business like that doesn’t really fit that I don’t so I think they’re very close to synonyms, but I see him a little bit different. And it is one who is able to take something and elevate it to the next level through applying whatever solutions and opportunities they see. So as you’ve taken over, actually, let’s back up a little bit. What is Chet Holmes international? Like, tell us about this amazing book that I’ve already given you my testimonial that every business owner should read, but give me the background a bit?
Amanda Holmes 2:37
Yes. So my father got his big break working for a billionaire Charlie Munger, co-chairman of Berkshire Hathaway with Warren Buffett. And he was able to double the sales of nine different divisions for Charlie all within 12 to 15 months, and several of them doubled multiple years consecutively. So he realized that he had this gift for growing sales, and he realized that he had a repeatable process for growing sales, which 92% of companies do not have a sales process. So no wonder it’s been such a raving success. He then went on to work with 60 of the Fortune 500 his clients, but he realized that he wasn’t going to be able to impact a greater amount of business owners unless he built a company that had coaches and consultants and he wrote a book that everyone could read. So you put it into the ultimate sales machine, and it is now voted in the top 10 most recommended marketing and sales books of all time. Congratulations, Dad, I’m so grateful. Yes, and so he actually was diagnosed with leukemia 10 years ago, and he passed in 2012. So a raging success, right, a quarter of a million businesses that we’ve assisted around the world and here we are a fully operational company and now the heart is just absolutely missing right the entrepreneur that it’s like as if all the moving parts would still operate, but then it was missing this heart. And that’s when I inherited it at 24 as a singer songwriter,
Tyler Jorgenson 4:01
man that’s a hard part to take over from First of all, it truly is a great mark of how impactful something was for if it continues once the person stops like taking their own foot off the pedal right and it clearly has because I didn’t come to know the book until after your father passed. And it was one of those things where I was super sad because usually you know I read the book I’m like, oh, one of the things I need to do is connect with people. And then I realized I couldn’t and that was super sad. And but it’s amazing to see the impact that the book continues to have and not just the book but the process and everything that are there. So you as a singer songwriter are the natural person to take over this new this new thing, but what are you able to step in and say okay, because there are systems and processes and these things exist? I’m able to come in and be the new heart.
Amanda Holmes 4:48
Ah, at first. No, I wanted nothing to do with it. I’m like this looks terrible. Oh my God, please Someone save me from this crazy mess. I Want Yeah, the some of my friends call me The Reluctant CEO I yeah, I was not interested in at all I had panic attacks all day every day when I get on a call thank God we were virtual I would listen in and I’d be crying sobbing on mute, and then they’d be like, Amanda, are you there? Yeah. It was not a heroic entrance at all, by any means. Yeah. And then, over the years, I started listening and asking questions and trying to understand what was going on. And the more I asked questions, the more, the team would say, oh, you’re asking the right questions, keep asking them and I moved into getting enough confidence to step in as CEO after I’d hired several different CEOs and presidents and CMOS and CFOs and CTOs and different c suites try and fill that void. And yeah, so it took some it took about two years for me to step in. But I’ve been CEO for seven years now. And it’s lovely. I mean, 60% of business second generation businesses fail. So yeah, I definitely have all of our fans and our clients to thank for that
Tyler Jorgenson 6:05
they were able to keep the momentum and hang on while you were getting your Kleenex and figuring out your you’re finding your cape, right? So was there a moment that you feel was a catalyst for you that allowed you to say, you know what, I’m ready to step into this role. It was a something of significance.
Amanda Holmes 6:22
Oh, man, quite a bit leading up into it. I study under an Indian saint. So she was a big part. Looking for mentors, I think is a huge, positive thing that you can do in your life, you know, somebody that can see past your own fears and see what your potential could potentially be. So yeah, under divine bliss International. I did a lot with them. I think one, one big thing that also happened was I climbed Kilimanjaro. Yeah, freestanding mountain in the world and, and it seems, you know, it’s 19,400 and some odd feet in the air and to walk it over a week seems like the most daunting task and I was very nauseated, I had really bad altitude sickness. But by the end of it, I realized that it just took one step at a time.
Tyler Jorgenson 7:15
So did you do it pole, pole, little by little one step at a
Amanda Holmes 7:18
time? Did you did you climb Kilimanjaro?
Tyler Jorgenson 7:22
I haven’t yet but I lived in Africa for a while. So what that’s got to be a metaphor right for you climbing the mountain of being CEO. So did what was it? You know, in that week, long ascent? Was your mind just going back to like, how can you How can you ascend? How can you grow?
Amanda Holmes 7:38
Absolutely. Yeah, it was a leadership retreat, actually with a bunch of CEOs. So it was the whole thing was talking with other business owners and I’m standing there going, guys, I really don’t think I could be CEO. This is crazy. You know, what am I thinking that it I think the analogy to analogies one of it takes one step at a time, and then also recognizing that it wasn’t about me doing everything because the last day I literally was so nauseated from the moment that I stepped on that mountain. Nobody really thought that I was going to summit. It was so with with altitude sickness, though, you get less air. So smokers have an easier time getting to the height of a mountain because they’re draining. Yes. Whereas me I’m I’m a singer songwriter, I’ve been trained to use my vocal cords. I’ve been trained in breathing techniques, I’m a certified yoga instructor, right? Like breath is everything to me. So to to restrict my breathing. I mean, by the end of the the last day, I had one guy in one arm, one guy on the other, my eyes were rolling to the back of my head, I was just a total mess. And I realized that the only way that I could get through that was by the help of the people around me. So recognizing that, yes, maybe I’m CEO, but there’s people around that can assist you
Tyler Jorgenson 8:55
That’s a powerful leadership lesson is being the leader doesn’t mean being solo doesn’t mean being by yourself. And in fact, it doesn’t mean doing it all yourself. It might mean, you got to take the responsibility, right? You got to take the accountability, but it doesn’t mean that you do it alone. That’s a really powerful lesson. What? Let’s get into something that is the heart of what you teach, and what and the message that your dad brought the fastest way to double sales. I think you have a fancy title for that. But tell us a little bit about them. One of my absolute favorite business tips of all times.
Amanda Holmes 9:27
Oh, awesome. Yeah, the fastest, least expensive way to double sells. And my father originally coined it as the dream 100. So that’s how he did it with Charlie Munger. I’ll give the historical piece first. So he was given a list of 2200 different prospects and just said, okay, reach out to these 2200 people. Well, he did some research and he realized that 95% of the market was purchased by only 167. So instead of going after all of them, he led an intensive effort just to those 167 On a repeatable basis where every Tuesday sending out a mailer, every Thursday’s, following up via phone call, every Friday, he’s sending the fax. So that was at that time today, the mediums have changed and adjusted. But it’s still the same of using that pigheaded discipline and determination to go after those big wonderful clients that could completely change your world. So four months in, he had not gotten one client. Now majority of businesses will give up after four months of going after a single client, right. But he had that pig PhD. That’s an important part of it. And the six month he brought in Xerox into their industry, which is the largest contract that the industry had ever seen. He close 28 more of those dream clients. That’s how we doubled sales in the six month double sales at the year and doubled sales multiple years consecutively, because he took that one skill set. And he continued to refine it over and over and over again. So we have 12 core competencies on how to double sales. This is just that one. So how can you lead an intensive effort just to those bigger better buyers? And how do you get to be the bright spot in their day where they go from? I’ve never heard of you before to Oh, yeah, maybe I’ve heard of them, too. Oh, yes, I’m familiar with them, too. Yes, I work with them. And I refer them all my business.
Tyler Jorgenson 11:14
I am such a huge fan of this concept. Because it just seems smart. It’s just more effective. It’s more intelligent, right? It’s more it maths out, except for the part of PhD, because so many people have a hard time of continuing to invest when there’s no not even a sign or a symbol of return. Like how do I know this is gonna work and part of it is just but you have to keep working. And the other part is, while there’s history other, you can look at other people’s examples. But how do you know if you’re, if you’re doing it right?
Amanda Holmes 11:45
I’ll give you some market data on that. So the average the average appointment takes eight different pieces of contact to reach that person. And the average sales person stops. So 95% of sales people stop after the fourth contact, but it takes double that to actually get that appointment. So knowing those numbers right, you find more clever ways to continue to follow up I just interviewed one of our raving fans out of India. They’re one of the largest Wealth Management groups in India Mattila oswaal. they’ve served 2 million Indians it’s absurd They’re huge. They went after a client for two years straight and just once a quarter they didn’t once a quarter which I found fascinating once a quarter they’d send them what we call lumpy mail I just don’t want actually today someone sent me a lumpy mail which I just love they sent they took my logo and put it on cards which I thought was very brilliant. Yeah, so they sent out this lump email to them once a quarter and two years later when when the Top of Mind happened where they said oh I need that product or service for them it was a service that was the first person they called because they created Top of Mind awareness so if you know the function of what you’re doing is creating Top of Mind awareness so that as soon as they do get into that buying now category, you’re the first person they think of that is the point
Tyler Jorgenson 13:09
yeah, it’s I have tried to explain it to other people. And I don’t do it as eloquently as you But I, I use the example if it’s like having targeted Superbowl ads, like Superbowl ads are great for because all they do is talk they it’s all Top of Mind awareness, they very rarely have a strong call to action. But the Superbowl only happens once a year and only certain people watch it and most people don’t have the budget for it. But if your dream prospects or your dream relate like dream clients or dream connectors, right, you can be top of mind for those people who eat three times a week or once a quarter or whatever the timing is, what are some what are some not to dos in person in the dream 100
Amanda Holmes 13:47
I’m always talking about yourself. That’s a great example. So if we go to chapter four of the ultimate sales machine which you can get for free online, ultimate sales machine comm if we look to the buyers pyramid, if you reach out to 100 people on average, only 3% of them are in the buying now category, another 7% are open to it. But the remainder of that 30% are not thinking about you 30% think that they’re not interested and the last 30% are definitely not interested so of all those people you’re reaching out to 90% of them do not care about you your product or service. So you really have to think what can I do to add value to this dream prospect? What can I generate them business? Can I generate them leads Can I give them a testimonial? Can I be a bright spot in their day? I did this with Dave Woodward. When I first met him, I followed up an every single day on Instagram when he would post something I would reply, I would comment every single day. It was as if me and David were were in dialogue even though we weren’t and he really didn’t say much on the other end. But he acknowledged that I said something every single day. Three months later, him and Russell came back to me and said, Hey, we’d like to buy 650 of these ultimate sales machine books and give them to our two comma club members. Hence why when I met you at funnel hacking live, everyone knew of my company and the book because of what that that wonderful follow up. That happened.
Tyler Jorgenson 15:19
Yeah, Russell has been a huge proponent and banner waiver for the ultimate sales machine for some time. It Again, it I think that he is where I first heard of the book was on one of his podcasts from I think 4 years ago, probably. And, and so it’s neat to see people taking, you know, the frameworks and the things that your father created, and also putting their own spin on to it. I think one of the things that Russell did that was unique was he made it about how to find like affiliate marketers or things like that, instead of closing contracts, but making more about partnerships, then then exact business, which again, the principles I think are the same,
Amanda Holmes 15:58
yeah, that does tie into so people then thought that the dream 100 meant you had to have 100 people, we have dream buyer campaigns that are just one, one person, you could have one person on your dream buyer campaign, you could have eight people, you could have 13 people, it’s not about the number, it’s about what you can actually commit to and follow up with that PhD.
Tyler Jorgenson 16:19
It’s interesting when we name things, especially if they have a number in them how people will hold to that. Because like Tim Ferriss when he was on the show, and we talked about the four hour workweek, it was like, Well, people thought if I was working more than four hours that I was being a hypocrite, but four hour workweek was just the winning title that won in a split test, it was more about the concept of lifestyle design, the concept of being deliberate, and what you want to build, not specifically only working for hours, and I think that’s similar dream 100. It’s a great concept. But it could be I mean, you’re the first less your dad, it was 167. Right? And it could be one, it could be five, it could be whatever number but it’s the concept of being laser focused. And instead of, you know, spray, or what is it, spray and pray. Right?
Amanda Holmes 17:03
Yeah. And also we teach it as the fastest way to double your sales. Some people have thought of it as it’s now the fastest way to get influencers to know you, which is like you totally lose the point of what that whole thing is, is to generate sales, right? So people will send a mailer in the mail, and then they won’t follow up to actually get the appointment. It’s like, what’s the point in sending the mailer if you’re not getting the appointment? Right?
Tyler Jorgenson 17:27
really good about
Amanda Holmes 17:28
following step one? Yeah. Yeah, you’ve got the attention. But now what the whole point is the PhD to follow up to close them into business, right?
Tyler Jorgenson 17:37
Well, you said, I think I don’t remember the exact number 92% of businesses don’t have a sales process. So the problem is if they don’t have a sales process, and all they do is implement dream, 100 they’re just they are just making noise, because they don’t have a process to create all the next steps. What is what are some of the next steps once you have are getting the attention of dream prospects?
Amanda Holmes 17:56
Yes. So then once you bring them into, let’s say, you’re getting an appointment, or you get them to, let’s say, getting appointment? That’s easier for me. So once you get that appointment, how do you add value to them? How do you set yourself up as an expert, and not just Hey, I want to talk to about my product, right? So that really ties into our stadium pitch concept of going back to that buyers pyramid? What can you do to educate them about something that’s keeping them up at night? What are the five biggest reasons they would fail in their industry this year? Right? Can you put together that as a presentation? Can you teach them something of value, it doesn’t necessarily have to be about your product to start because you’re gaining their trust their rapport, they would like to trust you respect you. Right? So then it leads into that easier version of getting them to work with you.
Tyler Jorgenson 18:45
And I think what probably turns a lot of people off is that this is hard work. If there’s a lot of steps, it takes patience, it takes perseverance. But clearly, the market data set like shows, hey, the people that stop at four touches, they’re missing a big piece of the pie, right? Yes,
Amanda Holmes 19:04
well, this also ties back to our main premise of mastery isn’t about doing 4000 different things. It’s about doing 12 things 4000 times, right. So we can come up with a million different ways to generate more business. But if you’re wondering why you’re not getting more traction, it’s because it’s just about that refinement. Right repetition is the mother of all skill. So this is just one of those skill sets that you will continue to work on repetitively over and over and over again until you become masterful at
Tyler Jorgenson 19:34
- What is coming for Holmes International.
Unknown Speaker 19:38
Oh, I’m finishing the new edition. It’s done. It’s in revisions with the with the publisher with Penguin, so the title
Tyler Jorgenson 19:50
is gonna be ultimate sales machine, the more ultimate sales machine, the ultimate would
Amanda Holmes 19:59
be the same Title although my father wanted it to be titled The pigheaded executive wins every time I like
Tyler Jorgenson 20:05
it, it reminds me of like the toilet paper entrepreneur, like the term that kind of like catches the attention.
Amanda Holmes 20:10
Yeah, well, the publisher wouldn’t allow it. And they said nobody will buy that book. So the publisher, one with the ultimate sales machine, my father was rather upset, but it ended up working out in the
Tyler Jorgenson 20:21
end, it’s hard to argue it was effective because it I mean, it did pretty well how many copies have been sold so far?
Amanda Holmes 20:27
Tyler Jorgenson 20:29
even have current data?
Amanda Holmes 20:30
Yeah, I don’t
Tyler Jorgenson 20:34
know there’s something on the title of the book, or there’s something on the cover of the book you’ve had it’s step
Amanda Holmes 20:39
number one. Yeah. And for years, right. It’s, it’s amazing. I didn’t do marketing for it for like five years, and it’s still was in the top 10 most recommended, which is just speaks to how brilliant of a book it is. Really. Yeah, I
Tyler Jorgenson 20:55
have probably recommended it on this show on in podcast, I’ve been guests of other things at least a dozen times. And so I think that you see that happen where like other people will recommend it. And then there’s a surge. And I’m sure you guys probably see the data on that, which is pretty fascinating. can track back who has more impact, but what? So what’s changing in the new edition? What What should people be looking forward to?
Amanda Holmes 21:18
Oh, man, well, I cover some of it. We just came out with a new quiz on what’s the single biggest thing holding you back from doubling the size of your company in the next 12 months that’s on how to double sales comm so you get a little bit of that Sneak Peek there. But so when my father originally created this, he created content marketing. I mean, 30 4050 years ago, he was doing content marketing for Charlie Munger back when nobody did content marketing, he called it education based marketing. So as a predecessor, and this concept of a stadium pitch, like how can you teach something of value, instead of just talking about your product was like, unheard of. Today Now, everyone educates. But the problem is that 50% of the content online is, is deemed useless, compared to prospects and 40% of it actually decreases the likelihood of somebody buying because we have gotten so lazy about our content, it’s actually hindering us. So what I put in the new edition is breaking down our whole core story, education based marketing approach to how we take content and turn it into sales, instead of just putting content out there willy nilly, and it actually hurting you.
Tyler Jorgenson 22:41
willy nilly is my least favorite kind of getting content out there. You know, it’s fascinating, because in one way, we’re saying you’ve got to get the reps, we’ve got to do the work. But then sometimes we start just doing the work for work sake, and we’re not doing it strategically. And so that’s the wrong kind of reps. And we see it’s so obvious in in sports disciplines, or in other kinds of disciplines where like quality in equals quality out, but for some reason, in content marketing, there’s this challenge of trying to keep up that people are willing to sacrifice and I’m all for there’s certain times where you need to be raw and usually to post but it should still be strategic and have a have a purpose.
Amanda Holmes 23:19
Absolutely. If you’re just checking the boxes, my gosh,
Tyler Jorgenson 23:24
and I think people are starting to feel that a lot more in. So I’m guessing the new version will also talk like less about fax machines, and maybe have some new technology involved and infused into it. But the principles are going to be the same, right? And the general message is the same.
Amanda Holmes 23:41
That’s funny that you say that, just really quick. So my father when he wrote the book websites was two words. So I had to change all mentions of websites and make it one word, and I actually put it into the foreword. So my, I had a wonderful book coach, Julie easson helped me like get to the finish line of this. I’d been working on it for the last two and a half years. And in the foreword, I kept writing it to the readers. And she’s like, why don’t you write the foreword to your father? Why don’t it be a letter to your dad? And my initial response was no way. Oh, my God, I can’t do that. But in the end, it turns out something really, really special
Tyler Jorgenson 24:19
so we all have to start the book with with tears. I I’m super excited.
Amanda Holmes 24:24
There might be some tears. I think it would be pretty cool that if a sales book started with a little bit of tears, I think that’s okay, we need Yeah, but one of the things I said to my dad was, guess what dad, websites became one word, like who would have thought?
Tyler Jorgenson 24:40
It is fascinating to see as things evolve and things change. We’re coming up here to the end, there’s two more important questions. You can decide if they’re important, they’re important to me. The first one is the ultimate sales machine is the ultimate book on doubling sales and one of the top books that people need to read in business. What’s the next top But people need to read what’s Amanda’s? If you can’t recommend the ultimate sales machine? What book do you recommend for business? Oh
Amanda Holmes 25:06
my gosh. Well, I go more into Autobiography of a Yogi by paramahansa Yogananda. So it was the only book that Steve Jobs had it on his iPhone, actually. And he gave it away at his funeral. And it’s a pretty powerful book about just understanding the purpose to life. And, yeah, that
Tyler Jorgenson 25:27
I think you’ve you’re not a complete human, you can’t be a complete business person. So Amen, brother. Yeah. And then lastly, I think business is about creating the lifestyle that you want, it’s about being deliberate, being intentional. What’s one item on Amanda’s personal bucket list that you’re gonna accomplish in the next 12 months?
Amanda Holmes 25:45
Well, with the launch of the book, part of my why for why I did it is because I lost my father at 55. And for all of his brilliance and all of his ways of working smarter, there was still so much pressure that it took him so early. So part of my addition to my father’s legacy, and what is really important to me is having that balance so that you can create your ultimate sales machine without becoming one and so I work with a nonprofit called divine bliss international and they’re we’re working to create a University of self realization. So that’s, that’s part of my why that’s why I’m doing what I’m doing because I would love to see business owners grow but not have to sacrifice your health or your family in the meantime. So that’s, that’s part of what I’m working on.
Tyler Jorgenson 26:33
That’s a pretty powerful why I don’t think I could have said that idea of building your ultimate sales machine without coming one. And any better that’s really amazing. to everybody who’s listening please go check out Amanda you can find her on Instagram at mn DITA homes and you can find her at how to double sales calm as well as ultimate sales machine calm and please support her everywhere when that next book comes out I know you’ll log in to grab 10 copies at least. And to all my businesses wherever you are listening it’s your turn to go out and do something.
Thank you for tuning in to biz ninja entrepreneur radio. What you didn’t hear was one more very important question that Tyler asks each guest if you want to be a fly on the wall when the real secrets are shared, go to biz ninja.com slash VIP and get your access today. Remember to subscribe so that you don’t miss any future episodes. And our one last favor if this episode was meaningful to you please share this podcast with a fellow entrepreneur so they can grow along with us is ninjas. It’s your turn to go out and do something