Tyler Jorgenson 0:01
You’re listening to biz ninja entrepreneur radio. This show was created for entrepreneurs, business owners, marketers and dreamers who want to learn from the experts of today and drastically shortcut their own success to build a business that supports their dream lifestyle. Since 2011, Tyler Jorgenson has been interviewing business thought leaders from around the world, a serial entrepreneur himself, Tyler also shares his personal insights into what’s working in business today. Welcome to biz Ninja, entrepreneur radio. Welcome out to biz ninja entrepreneur radio, I am your host, Tyler Jorgensen. And today we have Christina Hoffman, who is the founder and CEO, and all other many important titles over at a company called brand mine, which is creating a software that I think is going to really be one of the pieces that really helps businesses adapt to the changing landscape of e commerce and retail. So welcome to the show, Christina,
Unknown Speaker 1:05
thank you so much for having me.
Tyler Jorgenson 1:07
So you have been in marketing and retail for quite a while, right?
Christina Hoffman 1:11
Yeah, exactly. So my background is marketing. Yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson 1:15
Yeah. And what, what what do you think is the single biggest change that’s happened in marketing, since you got started?
Unknown Speaker 1:23
Well, the biggest change is, you know, marketing and it are merging together. So. So software AI is the big deal in the future in e commerce, and should help marketing really improve everything that is on their own digital touchpoints.
Tyler Jorgenson 1:44
Yeah, absolutely. So and that that merging of marketing in it means we also have faster knowledge, faster information, access to information, right, so we can make information based decisions. One of the things that we do when we’re helping companies get started and we’re helping is working with like, cut their customer Avatar and who they want to work with, who are they selling to? Right? And so you have a company called brand mind, but you guys are inventing a game. Tell us a little about about the game and what it does?
Unknown Speaker 2:13
Yeah, so the game has the aim to to help ecommerce platforms increase sales by detecting real time psychometric profiles and the sensory preferences. And is used as a kind of guide on ecommerce platform so that the user gets very fast to the products that they really desire. So this is actually what it does.
Tyler Jorgenson 2:38
So why would you know, let’s say I’m a I’m a user, I go shopping, I’m on a on a big brand. I’m on a site that has a lot of different products and different styles and different things like that. Now, why as a user, why would I want to stop shopping and play a game?
Unknown Speaker 2:55
Because, you know, you’re you’re talking about a huge ecommerce platform with different products, like I don’t know, 2000 sometimes, you know, when you’re scrolling, you’re scrolling, and it doesn’t stop, and you just don’t have the time to really spend that lot, a lot of time on that ecommerce platform. So that’s why it should be introduced like a guidance, and often in interactive playful way. Because this is actually what we have found out in different empirical researches. So whenever people are going to ecommerce platforms, they’re doing it in the free time. And sometimes, you know, get some inspiration, but fast. So and this entertaining aspect really fits to to the attitude when they’re coming to ecommerce platforms, but it should be fast. So yeah, that’s why
Tyler Jorgenson 3:44
Awesome, so the the user is going to know that this is actually going to help them help them understand what they want to buy. And so it has a, it’s not just benefiting the company, right? The sellers and then wanting to be able to sell more products, also helping the user to navigate and cut through the noise and really see products that they like, and that they’re more interested in.
Unknown Speaker 4:05
Exactly. So the main focus for us is first of all, the user, of course, companies should like it as well, but when user are not playing it, so yeah, that’s why we have very user flow centric.
Tyler Jorgenson 4:21
That makes sense. Okay. Very cool. And so what other you know, as marketing and it are merging, what other major trends are you seeing happening in the marketing and retail world?
Unknown Speaker 4:33
One part, so there was an article in the Wall Street Journal, I think it was three weeks ago, I have seen aspects from natural language processing, in ecommerce platform. So you you track what kind of language people use when they’re searching for something in the search field, for example, or computing vision, the whole AI part like, you know, tracking When users you know, probably dropping out and hot somehow to keep them on the platform, things like that I have seen until now. So that’s why, you know, I’m pretty sure that what we have to offer really is
Tyler Jorgenson 5:14
the future. Awesome. And so how do you see this playing into an existing business? Like, how are they going to get this implemented? Because you guys aren’t you guys are not yet to market. Right? You’re you. I mean, you have brand mind, but they’re with ignite yourself with IU, this is a new thing. Right? So let’s actually pause there, I want to go farther back, right. So what made you move from marketer into basically a full game app developer,
Unknown Speaker 5:40
because first of all, as I said, is the future and second, we made our experiences in offline. And this is maybe the basis for, you know, creating a software because you need somehow software is just a tool, but you need to feed it with intelligence. So that’s why we need those years and consultancies to put all our empirical research to put everything into this kind of software. So that, you know, it’s also different business, and
Tyler Jorgenson 6:07
we want to grow, and this is the future. So that’s why we did it. What was the biggest challenge that you had to face getting this from idea to, you know, getting ready, where it is now,
Unknown Speaker 6:17
the truth? So the biggest challenge is, well, actually, when I started the business three years ago, I had nothing actually, I didn’t even had the idea ready, I knew it will be something with marketing and it, but I had to dig deep into different scientific areas like neuroscience, psychology, and then AI to really understand and bring the whole idea together. First, second, you know, I founded the company in a country where innovation is nothing that they want here, they’re really focused here on tradition, what they know, so they invest in what they know, and not what they don’t know. So it’s very difficult here in Europe, much more to to sell innovation, because they don’t like risks here. So see, that’s why it was brutally hard. And it is until now to really survive and get to this point, or find customers who are more open minded and try new things out.
Tyler Jorgenson 7:20
So that’s fascinating. I think a lot of entrepreneurs that may be listening are faced with that a lot where maybe the idea they have is not being embraced by people around them, but they know they need to make it happen. How did you push through to get to where now you’re ready to launch? Like, what did you have to do to get, you know, battle for these three years?
Unknown Speaker 7:39
Well, this is a huge personal aspect, which every kind of entrepreneur will face. So the biggest challenge for me is to grow personally, because you get to certain barriers, like very often. And you need to be able to go the extra mile to to learn things that you didn’t know, to really practice positive mindset, even if you know, you don’t know if you survive in two weeks. Yeah. So my biggest challenge is the mental training.
Tyler Jorgenson 8:12
Yeah, you know, keeping a positive attitude, even when you have a down day or a big challenge or faced with an obstacle, that’s a big deal. And that’s that ability to fight through those challenges, I think what makes an entrepreneur so unique, exactly. So you know, with ignite yourself with this game, right? Talk us through your vision, I give in a perfect world, two years from now, what would be happening?
Unknown Speaker 8:35
Okay, the game is just the start. So the idea is to build up an AI. So everyone who has you know, has a little bit of know how from AI. So AI is not built from one day to the other. So you need a lot of data, to learn to fill it with information, and actually then talk about AI. So that’s why the game is just to start to learn, and getting better and better. And the idea is, at some point to have a software where we are able with seven clicks on specific products to identify the psychometric profile, and immediately change the surface of the website, to to the message to the products that are really, that really fits to the user. So this is the next step actually. So we are already working on that, but more on a conceptual part. Yeah. So this will be the next step. And not only that, we will have the NLP so the natural language processing as well plays and we will be also able to track everything that is on the e commerce platform. So to really when the game is still needed or wanted to integrate it really in an intelligent way when when it really makes sense for the user. So there you know a whole concept behind it, but the game is just the start.
Tyler Jorgenson 9:51
So what’s in for people who may be a little bit confused by what’s happening in the in the e commerce space in general, right. So As people are shopping online, the experience that I have is gonna be very different than the experience that Christina has. And most people recognize this in social media, you know, they’ll be like, okay, the algorithm like it’s the algorithm is now a relatively everyday term. And people, most people understand, Hey, your discover page on Instagram is gonna be different than somebody else’s. And that’s gonna be based on Instagram, trying to find things that you like, that’s really common right now, in tik tok, and the for you page, people, people will literally say, what side of Tick Tock Are you on. And it’s like, based on the things that you’re you that you’re interested in. So there’s an awareness of it, that’s happening. But what’s starting to happen is that’s becoming more and more common now in e commerce and in retail, where based on your, the things that you like, the experience that you have, and the products that you’re being delivered will be different. We do this in marketing already through dynamic product ads, where we only show you ads back to Facebook, on products that you’ve already visited or looked at. And this is basically taking all of this and take in leap forward. And being more predictive based on all those psychographics and psychometrics. Right.
Unknown Speaker 11:09
Yeah, exactly. So in marketing and campaigning, I think this is, you know, pretty normal on that part. But everything that happens really on ecommerce platforms itself, it’s a real question mark, because right ecommerce, don’t know the user. And the difference between you know, everything that is in campaigning and us is, we will be very, you know, in a very short time able to identify the psychometric profile. And we don’t need hundreds of data to do that. So And right now, that’s, this is the reason why we created this game. And additionally help, you know, converting the traffic that you have on your platform, much, you know, better than before.
Tyler Jorgenson 11:52
Yeah, that’s huge. And so, yeah, again, like you said, usually right now, the shopping experience is the same for everybody. The marketing campaign is different based on your how you’ve interacted with the company, or how they’re targeting or how they’re building campaigns. But what you’re looking to do is transform really the entire shopping experience. And so it would be kind of like if you went into a store, and let’s say you walk into an old brick and mortar, and they Customized just for you to walk through.
Unknown Speaker 12:22
Exactly. And so, exactly, this is the point, exactly, this is what we want to do, because you know, now we see with Khurana the transition from stationary to, to the digital way, so and people should have the experience of, you know, as someone who’s guiding them through, as it is sharing, and this is exactly what the way that we want to go now,
Tyler Jorgenson 12:46
I love it, I know that it’s definitely the the direction things have to go because people are starting to expect these experiences, they’re expecting the world to be responsive to them. Right. And, you know, for those of us that have kind of grew up analog and watched the digital era shift. This is very forward thinking. But I think it’s closer than most people realize, we’re actually getting really close to this happening. And so you and your company is is at the forefront of that. What other interesting changes or trends are you seeing in the digital space? Is there anything that’s coming? That’s surprising, you
Unknown Speaker 13:22
know, the only thing that is surprising me is that you already said it that the development is not that fast as I as it should be. This is what surprises me. So because you know that there are a lot of trends out there. But the private economy is somehow I don’t know, they stopped, I don’t know, five years ago or something like this. So this is something that the trends are, you know, like 10 years, you know, from now to 10 years. And companies are staying here and somehow are afraid to do the first step into that direction, because of fear, doing something wrong or losing their job or whatever to take risks. This is what I see right now. And this surprises me actually not the trends or something that this is for me normal that the development is this. But the adjustments of reality to there is really slow.
Tyler Jorgenson 14:17
It seems like it’s part of the cycle of innovation, right? There’s a period of time where things are innovating, and everyone has to move quickly because somebody pulled innovation forward. And let’s use something as simple as Facebook pixels and Google Tag Manager, right? Yeah. Okay, everyone. Okay, that’s there. Everyone has it now. Now we can all retarget Now, what’s insane is that there are still companies that we find that don’t have that set up. Yeah. And so now we’re talking about trying to do another jump forward. But there’s still camp, there’s still companies that are not caught up yet. So right so we have this like innovation cycle. We’re still trying to pull a bunch of the market to where we are today. But there’s another group of people already trying to leave that like that. That’s, that’s three, four or five years ago, like you just said, so we’re in this weird, and and those new things aren’t so normal yet. Yeah, right that it’s like, ah, let’s keep focusing on pulling everyone to us. And then eventually, it’ll get to a place where you can’t ignore it where you can’t. And it was kind of like, when having mobile responsive sites, right? I mean, I remember watching the numbers go 10% of people aren’t mobile 20%?
Unknown Speaker 15:25
Tyler Jorgenson 15:27
percent. And it was like, all of a sudden Google was penalizing you if your site wasn’t mobile optimized. And because and really, even if Google wasn’t doing it, you’re penalizing yourself, because more people are on their phones and tablets now then on computers. And so I think we’re in that cycle now, where, okay, we’re getting everyone here. And now it’s like, we’re gonna see a return to the desktop, I think we’re going to receive c a, n people, the experience that people have on their mobile phones will be different than they have on their computer, but fluid, right, you might see on your phone, you might see a limited catalog. So you don’t have overwhelmed. Right. So I just think i think that real flexible, adaptable experiences, what you’re trying to lead the charge on.
Unknown Speaker 16:12
Exactly. So that’s why we are searching for that early adopters who companies really want to be first want to change the market. These are the customers that we are searching for,
Tyler Jorgenson 16:25
who are your dream clients,
Unknown Speaker 16:28
while dream clients would be you know, clothes, shoes, everything in that direction on retail, it could be mid sized. So to start with, it’s much easier than bigger companies because of the political issues. So that’s why the mid sized companies were, you know, in the US is something midsize companies is something different than in Europe. So that’s why in the US, we still would have a lot of data with mid sized companies, then we would have here and Europe. So that’s why Yeah, in that direction would be the ideal customer.
Tyler Jorgenson 17:02
You don’t want to name any of them. No. I wanted to see if you’re willing to put it out into the universe and be like, these are the customers I would love to work with. These are the ones we want. But I get it, it’s fine. But uh, you know, you said, you know, just see if you put it out there, put the intentions there, but I get it, it’s okay. So you’re looking for these early adopters, early, these companies willing to be first movers, the people who understand like, Hey, this is gonna be kind of new, but it’s the data you’re gonna get, it’s gonna be actionable and what and then eventually, you’ll get to the next step of the business and all that. So I like to ask this question, because to me, it’s really important, especially if you’ve been head down for three years really focused on building all of this. I think it’s important that while building businesses, we don’t forget to build the lifestyle that we believe that we want, what’s one major item on Christina’s personal bucket list you’re going to accomplish in the next 12 months.
Unknown Speaker 17:57
And the next 12 months? Well, actually, hopefully, when Corona has somehow we you know, we no way and well, I would like to do a special hiking tour here in the mountains as something that’s a little bit dangerous. But yeah, I’m an adventurous or otherwise I would not be an entrepreneur. So that’s why I really want to do a hiking tour, very high on a mountain. This is what I really want to do in the next 12 months. And also hopefully to to to travel again, you know, this is something you know, you take so many things for granted until you don’t have them. So that’s why traveling again, to one of my Hong Kong countries is Greece. So I have not seen many islands. So I will do that as well. Awesome. Yeah, so this is what I have in my
Tyler Jorgenson 18:56
those are good ones very good ones. I think I miss traveling a lot. And so those are both really good, really good ones for you. So where should people go to find out more about you Christina?
Unknown Speaker 19:10
On the one hand on the website on the other hand, so it’s my LinkedIn profile so that you can see everything about me everything is written there what I have done, what is brand mind and Yeah, I think so the
Tyler Jorgenson 19:24
website is brand mine.ch Yes, and from there I believe you can find out more about Christina and more about the company and and and what they’re building and the games and all that kind of stuff and stay connected. So absolutely. And then I’ll for those of you that are listening, go to brand mind.ch if you’re if you are listening, watching and you’re on this on the business radio.com site, I’ll put a link to everything else as well. But really appreciate the conversation and it’s exciting to see where ecommerce and retail are going. Appreciate you coming out on the show and to all my biz ninjas out there. It’s your turn to go out and do something. Thank you for tuning in to biz ninja entrepreneur radio. What you didn’t hear was one more very important question that Tyler asks each guest if you want to be a fly on the wall when the real secrets are shared, go to biz ninja.com slash VIP and get your access today. Remember to subscribe so that you don’t miss any future episodes. And our one last favor. If this episode was meaningful to you, please share this podcast with a fellow entrepreneur so they can grow along with us is ninjas. It’s your turn to go out and do something