The Transcript Is Auto-Generated and May Contain Spelling And Grammar Errors
Tyler Jorgenson (00:01.249)
Welcome out to Biz Ninja Entrepreneur Radio. I’m your host, Tyler Jorgensen, and today I get to have somebody who’s a bit of a legend in the internet marketing space, who’s been around, not just a fly by night, one of these people that just popped up, but somebody who has consistently shown up and taught her stuff for years. And I’m so excited to finally have her on the show, Rachel Miller. Welcome out.
Rachel Miller (00:27.439)
Tyler, thank you. I’ve loved being here and love, guys, you don’t get to see it, but right off screen, he’s got a puppy. So I love the puppy too.
Tyler Jorgenson (00:33.089)
Yeah, I am sure that the puppy will make an appearance at least once. So yeah, and so this does go live or on ABC News radio, but it’ll also go on podcasts and things like that. So those of you that are watching it on YouTube or watching it other places, you’ll probably see my new puppy, Naledi, which is a Sosutu word for star. So she’s my little star. So, but she has very sharp teeth. So we’ll see how that goes. Yes.
Rachel Miller (00:37.967)
Oh good.
Rachel Miller (00:54.959)
She’s gorgeous. She’s gorgeous. Thanks Tyler for having me on today.
Tyler Jorgenson (01:01.473)
So Rachel, imagine that someone hasn’t heard of you, which is hard to do. If somebody hasn’t heard of you and you are describing what you do, how do you do that? What do you say?
Rachel Miller (01:06.735)
Ha ha!
Rachel Miller (01:12.719)
I tell them I’m a people collector, which I know sounds kind of creepy and weird, but I’ve always loved like the game of collecting an audience. So when I was in college, I didn’t have a whole lot of friends in high school, because I grew up homeschooled when homeschooling, I literally was, I think like the first year homeschooling was legalized, I was a homeschooler. Anyway, so I grew up like a little bit more isolated than the general population. And so I went to college and I’m like, I want to collect.
Tyler Jorgenson (01:22.881)
I love that.
Tyler Jorgenson (01:36.659)
Right.
Rachel Miller (01:40.015)
that group of friends. I want to be in that group of friends. So it’s like, I almost, it was almost like a game. It was a little, it was weird, but it was a game connecting with people. I, of course I wanted a friend, but I also wanted just, let’s get in on that crowd, get in on that crowd, get in on that crowd. Like tried on different hats of what crowds, of what type of personality I wanted to be with. Did I want to hang out with the geeks? Did I want to hang out with the musicians? Did I want to hang out with the jocks? You know, I didn’t know. So it was, so I kept collecting like different groups of friends.
And then online, I translated that into collecting different audiences. So I collected DIY home people, I collected preschool parents, I collected weird parents, I collected the different, I collected marketing, I collected small business owners, I collected, so I consider myself to be a people collector first and foremost, who loves people, and then once I collect them, I love to serve to them.
And I see serving as selling to them, having some type of action, some type of difference happening in their lives. And I guess the funniest example of collecting, because you have a dog there and I just can’t help it because there’s a pet. My neighbor’s cat, bless her heart, her cat kept peeing on my lawn furniture. And I’m not really a cat person. I’m definitely not a cat person when your cat’s peeing on my, where I wanna sit in the backyard and enjoy my backyard. Anyways, cat was driving me crazy and I did what every…
normal person does when the neighbor’s cat drives you crazy. And that’s create a Facebook page fan page for this annoying cat that would not leave my house. So next thing you know, it has hundreds of thousands of followers and I’m the crazy cat lady, but I don’t own any cats. And so, but I now love that audience and I love selling to that audience and that cat has since died and now I no longer have it peeing on my furniture. But anyways, there was a time when I had an audience of cat people.
I did not kill the cat. He’s fine. Like it was fine. He just got older. His name was Tyler. Just got Titus, Titus and just got older.
Rachel Miller (03:41.135)
Oh, you’re muted. I don’t know how that happened.
Tyler Jorgenson (03:44.865)
Yeah, that’s crazy. So you were homeschooled and you started kind of figuring out that you love collecting people in college. But when was the moment that you first realized you were an entrepreneur?
Rachel Miller (03:48.303)
I was.
Rachel Miller (03:58.351)
Oh, okay. I think I may have always been a little bit of an entrepreneur and it’s not like, it’s not that I realized I was an entrepreneur. It’s more that I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs. And I don’t know if you’ve ever like met other people who are children of entrepreneurs. You don’t realize it, but it’s kind of in your blood. You don’t have a choice. And what I mean by that is I always, my parents were always seeing the next business. They’re always thinking like, how do you optimize this? What’s the profit loss statement? I mean, they’d be discussing like,
Tyler Jorgenson (04:10.305)
Oh yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson (04:17.793)
Sure.
Tyler Jorgenson (04:25.729)
Hmm.
Rachel Miller (04:27.343)
the family revenue statement at the dinner table. So like, and like the pros and cons of different options, like that’s what dinner was. So I didn’t, I never thought I was an entrepreneur. I swore because I saw my parents have those highs where they’re making tons of money and then those lows where they lost it all. And I was like, dude, that’s stressful. I don’t want to do that. Like I literally told my parents when I was growing up, I’m not going to run my own business. I’m not doing that. That’s you guys. That’s not for me.
Tyler Jorgenson (04:29.057)
Yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson (04:34.561)
Yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson (04:48.481)
Yeah.
Rachel Miller (04:57.231)
I’m doing what you’re doing. It’s the opposite is what I’m doing and All of my siblings and myself are all entrepreneurs. So as soon what happened as I was a school teacher I loved being a school teacher I thought I was gonna become school teacher to assistant principal to then moving to collegiate teaching out of college and then to tenure and I had this whole track and all these books I was gonna write but become like a intellectual thought leader. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I
Tyler Jorgenson (04:57.857)
Right, the typical teenager, whatever you’re doing, I’m doing something else. Yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson (05:24.193)
Yeah.
Rachel Miller (05:25.807)
in economics, I love economics. So that’s what I thought I was gonna become, what I wanted to do. But yeah, life happened and I had baby and then I had baby while I was on maternity leave, I got pregnant again. And that was like, oh crap. I mean, it’s a blessing. I was glad to have a child because I love kids. But at the same time, I was like, this wasn’t exactly when I wanted this to happen exactly.
Tyler Jorgenson (05:43.649)
Sure.
Rachel Miller (05:51.343)
I wanted to have a little bit of a break. You can’t really put two kids through infant daycare on a teacher’s salary. You can’t really do all the well visits for babies and mama and be sick all at the same time for two babies. Anyways, so it didn’t work. I had to quit my job, but I felt more like I was fired. I wasn’t like, I just had to step out of the workplace. And that’s when I said, okay, the plan I had for my life isn’t what’s happening.
Tyler Jorgenson (06:04.161)
Yeah.
Rachel Miller (06:18.447)
at least for this time. So what’s plan B? And when I was at the down, I didn’t have any like business experience besides being raised by my parents. I didn’t have an online business. I just took the first step that was right in front of me. And that first step, I think I was making manuals for a Japanese company is like, like the remote control blinds. I think that was one of the manuals I wrote. Like you’re actually gonna buy remote control blinds and then read the manual on how to use it. Nobody does, because I don’t read the manual. So anyways, I might look at.
Tyler Jorgenson (06:45.729)
I’m that guy that actually reads the manuals. I’m like, I want to know how it works. I want to know all the secrets.
Rachel Miller (06:49.135)
Okay, you read them. Well, I wrote those manuals. Isn’t that a thing? I mean, that was my first job online and that was, it wasn’t a great job. It was the first step. I think I made less than like minimum wage, but I was able to do it at home with two infants. I learned how to write quickly. I learned how to optimize for user journey as in like what steps, da, da, da, da. And then I pivoted that into writing blog posts and then collecting an audience of blog.
follow my blog, and then I was able to write fast and multitask. So there’s a lot of good that came from it, but just always take that first step.
Tyler Jorgenson (07:23.841)
Yeah. Yeah, that’s a big deal taking that first step. And so when was the first time, I mean, like you said, the, the writing manuals didn’t necessarily like make you a ton of money. When was the first time you realized that, Oh man, maybe I’m onto something. Maybe writing these blog posts or writing these things, maybe this can actually start taking care of things.
Rachel Miller (07:42.383)
Okay, so I, little by little, my blog posts were making like 500 a month. I remember paying our mortgage. Then I remember making more than my husband. Then I think we were closing in about eight to 10K a month. And I thought I was like, big stuff, like, oh, I’m making 100K a year off my website. And I thought it was big stuff. And I started collecting people who asked me how I grew my audience.
Tyler Jorgenson (07:56.577)
Yeah.
Rachel Miller (08:04.911)
and I put them into an audience of people that ask that question. So if somebody asks me a question over and over again, I tag them and I put them into like a little group of people similar to them.
Tyler Jorgenson (08:12.065)
It’s a very like economist thing to do. Yeah.
Rachel Miller (08:15.407)
Yes, so I did that. And so I collected, I told you it’s a collecting people thing, right? Okay. So I collected the people that asked me how I built my business. And I had about 200 of them in the audience. And I realized that I was thinking small with that group of people because that group of people had a big enough problem that I could solve that they were willing to pay a big enough price for. And so before that, I was selling like little things, which are good because I was collecting the audience. You have to test your audience, right?
Tyler Jorgenson (08:18.593)
Yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson (08:39.457)
Hmm.
Tyler Jorgenson (08:44.129)
Yeah. Yeah.
Rachel Miller (08:45.231)
So it was building an audience, creating a little product, testing, do they wanna buy this? Okay, then I’ll create a funnel for you and a whole product sequence. What I didn’t realize was there’s a way to, when you package your information, the knowledge that you have, you’re able and you packaged your humanity, like connecting with me as a person. When you package knowledge and humanity, you can charge a lot higher price point for that product. And so I had those 200 people.
I said, hey, do you want me to teach you about growing an audience? And they said, yes. 45 of them, the night I made the offer, said yes. And I said, well, you can’t just say yes, you have to buy. That’s how you say yes is by buying. And they all purchased, the 45 people. The other 90 whatever people didn’t see me ask. So they were really pissed because it was Halloween afternoon. When do you wanna sell to moms?
Tyler Jorgenson (09:30.689)
Mm.
Tyler Jorgenson (09:34.497)
Mmm.
Rachel Miller (09:37.295)
like that are business owners. Yeah, definitely while they’re out walking with their kids five o ‘clock at night on Halloween. But I was like, I’m not selling to you if you didn’t get it on Halloween night, because I got to think, how am I gonna, I don’t have this yet and I have 45 buyers, what am I gonna do? So they bought and then six or eight weeks later, I sold it again to everybody else on that list. I think at that time, the like pizzazz and the buzz about it had, I had about a thousand people now on that list that were asking me about it. And my opening launch,
Tyler Jorgenson (09:42.689)
Yeah, good timing, good timing.
Tyler Jorgenson (10:03.617)
Hmm.
Rachel Miller (10:06.895)
I did 96 ,000 in three days. And so that’s where I was like, oh, I’m onto something. And we went on to have 27 ,000 students in that program.
Tyler Jorgenson (10:10.369)
Wow.
Tyler Jorgenson (10:15.873)
Yeah, big time.
Holy moly. And what was that called? Because I think that was something that was, was that like your first kind of big program or course that? Yes.
Rachel Miller (10:26.)
That’s when people found out who I was. I would, but I’ve been running online businesses before then, but mostly I was faceless. But that’s when I realized there’s something to the knowledge economy where you can package what you know. That’s something that people desperately want to connect with other humans and desperately want to learn from others.
Tyler Jorgenson (10:37.473)
Yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson (10:42.625)
Yeah. So you’ve, you, that was a huge win, right? I mean, like you said, it didn’t just come out of nowhere. You’d been doing lots of things to build to that point. When was the last time that you had a major paradigm shift and what led to that?
Rachel Miller (10:58.991)
Okay, so my major paradigm shift, they kind of went two by two, okay? I had a million dollar a week and my team quit on me at the same time and I had no profit from that million dollar a week. At the same time, my websites are declining in their reach. So like my websites, because now, okay, I had two different sources of traffic. I had that course that I was selling, course, and then I had the blogs.
Tyler Jorgenson (11:06.497)
Oof.
Tyler Jorgenson (11:11.553)
Oh man.
Tyler Jorgenson (11:18.593)
Mm -hmm.
Tyler Jorgenson (11:25.057)
Mm -hmm.
Rachel Miller (11:27.983)
that I’d made traffic on and they just are like, it’s like mailbox money, because once you do all the work, it continues to earn for you. But algorithm changes, Google changed, so this is going down and this is like a trash, a dumpster heap. So I was like, I need stability in my life. What was the business that gave me the most stability? The blogs. So I fulfilled on my 2 ,000 buyers or I think it was 1 ,700, 1 ,800 buyers that had purchased my course. I fulfilled with them with a skeleton team.
Tyler Jorgenson (11:34.081)
Right.
Tyler Jorgenson (11:47.713)
Hmm.
Rachel Miller (11:56.943)
And then after that, I’m thinking, how can we simplify? We’ve got to simplify in the future because this is too stressful for me. I’m a stay at home mom, not stay at home. I’m working from home, but this is my home office. I got six kids. I ain’t got time for this drama.
Tyler Jorgenson (12:06.561)
Yes.
Tyler Jorgenson (12:10.465)
No, you still want to have time to be mom. Yeah. Yeah. Fair. That’s fair.
Rachel Miller (12:13.231)
to have time to be mom whether I want to or not. No, I love my because I want to but you don’t mean. Okay, so I go in and I realized the blogs going down and so we knew ad revenue is going down and I knew this was right before like the cookies are just like destroying like the third part death of the cookies and iOS 14 had rolled out and people couldn’t track with ads as well. So ads basically are going down and I knew this was just the curve was
Tyler Jorgenson (12:30.593)
Oh, right. Yes.
Rachel Miller (12:41.295)
Starting but the wave is gonna tank even worse. So I saw the writing on the wall. I had to get products onto my website ASAP But I already had products I already knew this I had like 15 products, right? But I knew for me to make up the revenue on that one. I didn’t need 15 I need another 47 because I told you guys I had a cat audience Well that cat audience only had one product I should probably have four because that cat audience wants to buy more than one thing for me. I
Tyler Jorgenson (13:02.049)
Oh wow.
Rachel Miller (13:10.127)
I’m not really serving my audience if I just sell one thing. Yeah, I’m gonna have four opportunities to sell and my DIY home one, well, I could have 15, 20 there. The preschool kids one, my business partner has, she had to have 40 there. So we needed a way to make funnels. I was like, awesome. I’ve made funnels before. I’ve sold, like I said, a million dollars in a week. I can do this. And like I said, guys, a million in a week does not actually mean you make a million in a week. It was not a very good week.
Tyler Jorgenson (13:13.665)
Right.
Tyler Jorgenson (13:38.657)
It’s amazing how that can be, yes.
Rachel Miller (13:40.655)
I did not actually earn very, I was the lowest paid employee in my team that week. So, okay. Anyways, my point in that, so it’s not a brag. I’m trying to say it’s not a flex. Although it is a flex. Can be a flex, it’s a bad flex. Okay. So I, I lost the flex guys. Okay. This was a lot of good one. So the, the, the products I’m going in, I’m making products and I’m realizing, okay, well, so we need these templates and they make it faster. We make these.
Tyler Jorgenson (13:54.817)
It’s a flex, but like you lost the flex -off -com test. Yeah, yeah.
Rachel Miller (14:10.255)
templates and they make it faster. We got these email sequences that make it faster. But it’s still, I was able to make a funnel from like a four day process to an eight or six hour process. But like, I have 47 of these. And to be completely honest, I have six kids, I only have a six hour workday. Like that doesn’t, more than that doesn’t really work. So am I really gonna spend 47 full days building freaking funnels? And I was like,
Tyler Jorgenson (14:33.281)
Right.
Rachel Miller (14:39.471)
No. So we created a page wheel and that was my big like, okay, there’s the information age of I’m going to teach you. I’m gonna put my face on camera and I’m gonna teach you. And then there’s the information age of what if you don’t wanna learn? What if you just want the easy button or the light switch? Do I need to teach you how electricity works in your house or do you just want the button to flip? And there’s the light. And I was like,
I know with me, I don’t want to learn how to make products faster. I just want to flip the switch and have my product, my emails, my ads, my offer page, my delivery page, my upsell page, my sequence of social media posts to promote it. I want them just done. And so we created it. So that’s what we did. We built it. Okay. No, actually that was the paradigm shift. It then took me hiring the wrong team to build it. They didn’t build it.
Tyler Jorgenson (15:24.865)
Yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson (15:28.865)
And that was easy. They were like, ah, that’s no big deal. We’ll just.
Tyler Jorgenson (15:36.321)
Okay.
Rachel Miller (15:38.319)
Then we hired a new team to build it. They built it. And then we had to get the bugs out, like make a refresh button, because we forgot about a refresh or a back button. Like all of those things that you forgot to do when you’re building SAS.
Tyler Jorgenson (15:44.417)
Yeah.
Right, yeah, the little things. And so you seem, from my perception, very resilient, right? Like you navigate challenges and setbacks quickly, but how did you develop that? So what was a major setback or obstacle or failure that you had and how did you overcome it?
Rachel Miller (16:07.503)
How do you develop resiliency? Oh, that’s a really good question. I don’t think I’ve been asked that before. And I’ve done a lot of these. Like Tyler, you’re good. First off, I think part of having resiliency is that you can feel safe. So I feel safe because I have a business partner who lets me blow a lot of money on an idea of building a software company. And she’s like, yeah, sure, let’s blow our entire revenue for 18 months on that. Like.
Sure, we’ll make no money. We’ll both go all in on it. Let’s do it. Like I had somebody behind me saying, yeah, sure. That’s freaking weird. Like nobody else is doing this. Are you sure you can like, oh really? We’re stay at home moms. You think we could pull this off? We’ve never built anything in software before. We’re going to do, we’re going to code this ourselves. Alrighty, let’s do that. Like it sounds insane. And she said, heck yes, I’m in. And then I have a husband who is really chill. So while I’m like,
Tyler Jorgenson (16:40.065)
It’s a big deal though.
Tyler Jorgenson (16:54.913)
Yeah.
Rachel Miller (17:04.591)
I guess you can tell I’m high energy. I’m like, yeah, or I’m like, dude, that was the worst million dollars was the worst mistake I had ever made. So I’m like, up here, he’s just like, yeah, we’re good. We’re good. We’re good. He doesn’t have a lot of demands or needs. He’s not like, he’s just simple and happy and content. And so I have their support. So I have the ability to take a lot of risks that other people can’t. So I can be resilient because I’m not a
Tyler Jorgenson (17:29.153)
Mm -hmm.
Rachel Miller (17:32.783)
a one -man show. Does that make sense?
Tyler Jorgenson (17:34.881)
It makes so much sense. And I think, I think it’s almost overly simplified because I think that didn’t happen accidentally, right? You chose a partner that you knew that as that was going to work. You’re it, you stayed it or you’ve picked a husband and stayed in a marriage because it worked for you. But I think it’s so important to find those people that give us safety because business is volatile and complex. So if we’re not feeling safe with the people we’re working with or surrounding ourselves with.
Rachel Miller (17:45.775)
Yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson (18:04.705)
I can really make it hard to do the job we’re supposed to show up to do.
Rachel Miller (18:08.879)
That’s what it is. I needed that safety to be resilient. Cause you don’t get to build roots. You don’t get to build. I mean, you need to have failure. You have to have failure to be resilient. You have to failure and get back up, but you can’t get back up if you’re not supported. And so for me, I was able to get back up a lot faster and easier because I have that support. For people who don’t have that support in a spouse or in a business partner, find it in the community, like a Facebook group or like, find a business bestie to come alongside you.
Tyler Jorgenson (18:39.105)
So you guys built Pagewheel. What are you excited about with Pagewheel? What really lights you up about it?
Rachel Miller (18:48.175)
What lights me up is I had 27 ,000 people purchase like digital courses from me, right? And of the people that would buy a digital course, guys, one fifth of them did not even open the fricking thing. They paid me. Some of them paid me a lot of money and they never opened it. Okay, so like how much impact am I really making in those people’s lives when they don’t open? If they joined the Facebook group, they got like live coaching or whatever, but still like they didn’t really fully implement, right? And then, so one fifth didn’t implement.
Tyler Jorgenson (18:59.265)
Yeah.
Rachel Miller (19:17.775)
Then we have two thirds who kind of so -so got results or, and then two fifths did well and one fifth of those actually like blew it out of the park, right? And that’s considered good. So that’s above industry average is I was successful with 20 % of my students. Well, what if I could give you an easy button and you could have the whole thing done without having to learn and instead of.
Tyler Jorgenson (19:30.753)
Oh yeah, that’s above industry average. Yeah.
Rachel Miller (19:47.023)
20 % of my 27 ,000 students getting results. All of my 27 ,000 could get results. And instead of them paying me hundreds or thousands of dollars to get those results, we’re doing it for the price of a pizza. So that’s where my goal, where I want this to go is I wanna change 27 ,000 people’s lives with $27 of their investment. Because I think it shouldn’t be hard. We shouldn’t have to learn. I shouldn’t have to disappoint.
minimum 20 % but realistically more like 80 % of my buyers, I should be able to wow all of them. That’s what I’m doing.
Tyler Jorgenson (20:23.073)
Yeah, and if as somebody who has built a lot of funnels and a lot of websites, the overwhelm that can happen when you’re starting, when you’re just getting started, you log into a platform that is that it can just be completely like exhausting. And so to have an easy button to have an ability to just get started, you know, so you’re serving people so that they can serve people, but you can’t serve if no one can ever get anything done and published out to the world.
Rachel Miller (20:50.159)
Yeah, oh, I love that you can’t serve if you can’t get anything done. And here’s the thing, even experts that are making their own funnels they don’t want to take eight hours on it. So, and they might want to take eight hours once the funnel is proven. So like I had to learn that.
Tyler Jorgenson (21:07.553)
Sure.
Rachel Miller (21:10.095)
I’m gonna make this funnel and no one’s gonna buy it. I’m gonna make this funnel and no one’s gonna buy it. I’m gonna make this funnel and no one’s gonna buy it. And guess what? I have made, I’ve sold a ton of funnels and a ton of products and I made a lot of money and I still create a funnel that no one will buy from because it’s kind of like the law of averages. I gotta make 10 funnels for four of them to be great. Well.
Tyler Jorgenson (21:30.177)
Yeah. And that’s somebody who understands marketing, right? So if you’re just coming in without the experience, you’ve got to make a hundred to find that one or two that might work.
Rachel Miller (21:33.519)
Yes!
Rachel Miller (21:39.823)
And if each one takes eight hours, well, that’s really demoralizing. And now you think I’m not meant to have a business or the software doesn’t work or my people aren’t buyers. Instead of realizing, no, we just got to make another offer. And if you’re having to spend eight hours to make each offer, well, that’s very demoralizing. I needed a way for myself to not get demoralized. I wanted a way to be encouraged because I got a fast win.
Tyler Jorgenson (21:44.097)
Yes.
Rachel Miller (22:07.087)
because I made eight of them in an afternoon and now I could test each of them by tomorrow and okay, I can see light because one of them took off or one of them even got a couple sales. I know that’s a direction. I can now spend eight hours on that funnel. I don’t have to spend eight hours on everything to find my winner.
Tyler Jorgenson (22:24.865)
Yeah, that’s great. Yeah. Being able to put the time only into the ones that show the leading indicators of success instead of having to test everything is brilliant. When you zoom back to like when you were just getting started and as you started to collect people and be able to see like what an audience is, what a community is. A lot has changed, as you mentioned, in algorithms and what’s happening. There’s the number of social media account or platforms are, you know, is exponential. There’s so much more noise.
Rachel Miller (22:30.735)
Mm -hmm.
Tyler Jorgenson (22:54.497)
So what’s changed in your advice from the beginning till now when you’re talking to somebody about how to build a community and collect people on it?
Rachel Miller (23:07.535)
I mean, I use AI a little bit now, a lot now actually, because AI can make it faster and easier. So that’s a big, big change. But I don’t think much has changed in the sense I still have to be the human that interacts. Like, yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson (23:22.049)
All right, so zoom back, so then what is, what, if someone’s just getting started and you’re just trying to give them a good nudge forward, what’s your advice to them?
Rachel Miller (23:30.479)
Pick your person and instead of talking about the problem your person has, talk about the problem they have in a way that celebrates them. So how can you make them the hero of their day in spite of the fact that they have a problem? So I’m a little weird. I’ll just call myself quirky. I’m not weird. I’m quirky. Quirky, yeah. Okay, the first person who told me I was quirky, I’m sure he meant it as an insult. I’m positive he meant it as an insult.
Tyler Jorgenson (23:38.625)
Hmm.
Tyler Jorgenson (23:51.297)
I like quirky.
Tyler Jorgenson (23:59.297)
Ha ha ha!
Rachel Miller (23:59.311)
He’s like, dude, you’re just like, you’re just intense and quirky. Like, I’m like, dude, I’m taking it. I’m running with that one. So when my husband said, what do you want to name your blog? I’m like, quirky mama, cause I’m quirky. Like I’m taking it, I’m going to wear that as a badge of honor, right? So what are those problems that someone can wear as a badge of honor? So for example, if they’re moms of preschoolers, I tripped on the Legos again for the umpteenth time today. They’re not going to complain about maybe.
Tyler Jorgenson (24:04.577)
Yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson (24:13.697)
Yes.
Rachel Miller (24:27.247)
dishes, they might not complain about the fact that they have a hairball from the dog in the corner that’s been there for three months collecting, seeing how big it can be, you know, they’re not going to collect, complain about those things. So that makes them look bad. They might complain about those things that make them look good. So how can you put their problems in a way that kind of highlights who they are? So, um, one of the examples would be like, um, so one of my students is a debt collector. If there any problem that nobody wants to talk about, it’s their debt.
Tyler Jorgenson (24:52.481)
Mm -hmm.
Tyler Jorgenson (24:56.097)
Right.
Rachel Miller (24:56.207)
So how can we talk about debt in a way that celebrates the debt or laughs at it? Why? Because she wants to collect the audience and make them feel safe. So now she can talk about their problems and she can convert them to a fire. But if we just start with, you’ve got debt, you got a debt problem, let’s go help you with your credit repair score. Yeah, everyone’s like, peace out, I’m out. Like, oh yeah, thank you mother -in -law for tagging me on that. Like, no, nobody wants to be tagged on that post. But if the post says,
Tyler Jorgenson (25:03.297)
Mm -hmm.
Tyler Jorgenson (25:12.897)
They’re just close. Yeah, swipe, swipe, swipe faster.
Rachel Miller (25:24.911)
Last time I went to Costco, I wanted to get toilet paper and I came home with a kayak and a year supply of Doritos. People laugh at that. It wasn’t a kayak, I bought a three foot tall bear. Who?
I got seven. Okay, now the person who buys seven pinatas at Costco, guess what? They also have impulse buying issues. And so now she’s able to collect that audience in a way that’s safe and say, hey. Okay, so my point is she’s featuring the problem in a way that celebrates the person. And then, okay, you have this issue at Costco. Now let’s create a shopping list to make your Costco experience easier. How to shop within your list.
so you don’t overspend or stay within the budget. You wouldn’t say overspend, because that’s so bad, to stay within budget. That now is a lead magnet that she can send to the people who overspend at Costco and say, hey, would you like this? Once they subscribe, then she can say, hey, I’ve earned the right to talk to you. I’ve earned the right to come alongside you now. Would you like some, a little mini course on how to lessen your.
debt load so you can have more lower your payments and have more each month. Does that make sense? How like you can work someone through that journey, even if it’s a horrible problem that no one wants to talk about.
Tyler Jorgenson (26:43.905)
Yeah, no, that’s very clever.
Yeah, I think, and I think how you said that where it’s really about making people feel safe because again, yes, you say you serve people through selling to them, but again, there’s ethics there, right? You’re selling them things that you believe will make their life better and will make them increase their standard of living. And so they need these things, but if they’re always blocked from receiving any of these new opportunities or these new products because the marketing’s abrasive, then they can’t ever.
receive, right? And so I think it’s really, I think it’s neat how you don’t steer away from the marketing and the sales side of it. But I think that’s a very smart way to disarm and celebrate the chaos that all of us deal with as humans.
Rachel Miller (27:30.159)
Yeah, we all have problems that we have in our lives that we want to fix. And we all have a way that we laugh at that problem to kind of like minimize it in our lives. So the person who’s having the most pain about a problem often is the person who’s also minimizing it, like excusing it, making excuses. So when you’re trying to come alongside them to sell, first grow that audience and nurture them by…
Tyler Jorgenson (27:32.577)
Mm -hmm.
Tyler Jorgenson (27:45.569)
Mm -hmm.
Rachel Miller (27:53.199)
coming alongside them and supporting them while they’re in that journey and then giving them a little fast win. That’s where that lead magnet or list builder comes in. Then you entertain them. And this is a full.
Tyler Jorgenson (27:59.809)
Yeah.
Is there, do you have a framework for that? Because I mean, I’m familiar with, you know, problem agitate solve or a lot of the other copywriting formulas, but I don’t know if I’ve heard like celebrate people’s issues, then like that’s a cool formula. I think it’s brilliant.
Rachel Miller (28:19.311)
I don’t remember where I heard it. I feel like it was this guy named Tyler. He called it a bumper sticker. He’s like, would we put it on a bumper sticker? And that kind of stuck out to me. He was just making like an off the cuff comment.
Tyler Jorgenson (28:27.681)
Hmm.
Rachel Miller (28:31.887)
And I don’t even remember his last name. This is like ages ago. Some guy, I think his name is Tyler, maybe it’s Titus, I don’t know, some T name. Anyways, he said, would they put it on a bumper sticker? And then I thought of my kid. And my kid was at the time a stage manager for like the local middle school, like little theater production thing. And that entire semester, he had one stage manager shirt. Dude, that shirt was being worn every single day at school.
and then he’d wash it and he’d put that same shirt back on because he wanted the whole world to know he was the theater stage manager. So everybody in theater, they had to listen to him when they walked on the stage to know when they could get on and get off. Right. So like he had that he was wearing the shirt. He was he was identifying himself as this is me. He’s like labeling himself. Right. How can we be the label for our audience with our social media? If you can crack that nut, you can attract everyone to you.
Tyler Jorgenson (29:08.289)
Mm -hmm.
Tyler Jorgenson (29:19.489)
Right.
Rachel Miller (29:29.487)
because everyone is on social media to be social. They’re on there to talk about themselves. They’re not on there to see about the problem or to find out about whatever your gizmo is that you’re selling in ads. They’re there to talk about themselves with other people that they want validation from. So be the vehicle that gives them validation. Wear that bumper sticker, wear that t -shirt slogan, not with a shirt, with your Facebook post, with your Instagram post, with your TikTok reels.
Tyler Jorgenson (29:55.617)
like that a lot. So Rachel, you’ve got six kids, you got 600 businesses, you’ve got 6600 ,000 students, you’re busy. To me, business isn’t anything if it doesn’t help us create the lifestyle that we want. What is one item on your personal bucket list you’re going to accomplish in the next 12 months?
Rachel Miller (30:15.471)
Oh, 12 months? Get my kid off to college. Oh. Oh.
Tyler Jorgenson (30:19.713)
See, that’s your kid, you. I want you.
Tyler Jorgenson (30:26.785)
This is about Rachel. What is Rachel gonna do?
Rachel Miller (30:29.903)
Huh. Yeah, I don’t know. I hadn’t really… I guess most of my things are my kids. Isn’t that weird? Um, yeah. Um, I love…
Tyler Jorgenson (30:33.057)
Okay
Yeah, no, it’s not weird, it’s normal. But I just, you know, yeah.
Rachel Miller (30:41.167)
When my kids leave the house, my husband and I want to spend like three months and go to all the national parks and he wants to run in like all these marathons everywhere. He’s an ultra marathon runner and I want to sit in the park. But I can’t do that and live in a tiny RV going around the country. I can’t do that with six kids. So it’s kind of like my husband and I researched that at night, knowing we can’t do that for five years. And it’s not like, I know people will say, well, you can always live your dream now. I’m like, yeah, but that’s just not going to work.
Tyler Jorgenson (30:50.849)
Very cool.
Tyler Jorgenson (30:59.969)
Mm -hmm.
Tyler Jorgenson (31:09.185)
Sometimes you force a dream at the wrong time, it can be a nightmare. So yeah, there is timing. Yeah.
Rachel Miller (31:12.559)
Yeah, it’s just not gonna happen right now. So, but we won in five years. That is my goal is to take a whole three months off and go see all the national parks because all my kids will be in college or on their own or whatever. Yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson (31:19.009)
Yeah, it’s coming quick.
Tyler Jorgenson (31:25.249)
Yeah, and you, I mean, you travel, I ran into you in Costa Rica, so like any big travel or cool destinations in your horizon?
Rachel Miller (31:34.479)
Well, one of my kids has epilepsy now, so we don’t get to travel as much. So yeah, we have to be closer to the hospital. His seizures are a little more difficult now. So what we did actually just like two weeks ago, we were backpacking in Guadalupe National Forest. So we’ve got places, but it’s a little bit more complicated lately.
Tyler Jorgenson (31:39.169)
that will slow things down. Yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson (31:44.673)
Yeah. Oh man.
Tyler Jorgenson (31:50.945)
Very cool, yeah. You do have to be a little bit more, yeah, cautious there. Well, Rachel, it’s been an absolute pleasure visiting with you. If people want to know more about you, where should they go?
Rachel Miller (32:03.215)
Okay, pagewheel .com is our latest product and it’s pretty freaking awesome. We’ll build your funnel in four minutes. Well, average user is 33 minutes, but you can do it as fast as four minutes. Don’t be average. Yeah, Tyler, this was fun. It was fun, thank you.
Tyler Jorgenson (32:16.481)
Don’t be average, be better than average. Awesome, Rachel, thank you so much. That was so fun to visit with you. Okay. All right.
